Rule Suggestion (3.5 New Life Rule)

[Jack Bruhross]

Suggestion Topic: 3.5 New Life Rule
Suggestion Description: Add a longer nlr period for cops, Currently during in raids on the server it is extremely hard to raid. There are far to many cops to deal with before you can deal with the defenders inside the house you are raiding. Ill give some examples below.

Yesterday while raiding a projex apartment it appeared to be 12 people inside, This alone is a hard task to deal with due to limitations of bombs and floorbanging/raiding. ontop of this we had to deal with around 15+ cops. By the time you manage to take care of the cops they are already coming back as a unlimited number. Yes I understand cops should be "op" But if a big org like my own cant raid I am almost certain (newplayer) john tim stands no chance at all.


I am open to other suggestions/inputs on this suggestion and I also recall @Efan a while ago poling if 5.3 was going to be changed (flanking your own raid as a crim). I think this is a huge problem and needs to be changed.

Why should this be added?:
- Gives everyone a fighting chance.
- Quality of life
- Make solo raid/raiding in a small group possible.
- Adds more balancing.
- (will add if suggested)

What negatives could this have?:
- Crim have ak.
- Crim have as50
- Cops wont be able to play deathmatch and run in aiming to only kill one before dying.
(willing to add more if suggested)

 

[Dom_]

Neither am I under the impression that you are. The point is that I wager about half of the situations where police will be wiped will occur in the bounds of the city (PD raid, bank robbery, regals/slums/office raid, city hall attack), so in these fairly common cases, the officers are unlikely to be able to leave the city safely without passing through their NLR zone, or getting in the line of fire whilst attempting to reclaim their vehicles.

Albeit these do not make up all of the situations possible, and in some cases what you suggest would be entirely viable. However, it would significant enough to acknowledge the fact that in these cases officers would have to wait for even more time, when the point of the game is to play and have fun rather than stand around.

Perhaps this could be solved by offering alternative spawn locations for police equipment and vehicles, such as at the fire department or the city hall, provided that the officer has an ongoing NLR timer.

Refer to my previous point:

The only balance I see is either reducing slots, increasing police NLR or disallowing them from responding to a situation they've died in altogether.

 

[ALOO89]

Albeit these do not make up all of the situations possible, and in some cases what you suggest would be entirely viable. However, it would significant enough to acknowledge the fact that in these cases officers would have to wait for even more time, when the point of the game is to play and have fun rather than stand around.

haveing NLR dose not mean stay afk it mean dont go back the the shootout place and the thing of being cop is not just to have fun on shootout you can do many think traffic regulation or investigation into a theft crime etc.....

 

[northnortheast]

How does it scream balanced with high population for crim players then? If we are talking balanced, then how is it balanced to have 24 cops against like 6 raiders on average? There are constantly like 3 tfu officers and 10 + pistol cops on when the server hits the peak. Some of the raiders will probably die to the defenders inside, but the cops and tfu will be a huge pain in the ass for them... Not to mention that they will come back within a few minutes after they respawn

I must have amnesia, as I never claimed that the police department was completely balanced during high population? I am in support of finding a solution to this problem of an impossible wave of officers, but this suggestion raises more questions than it answers, which is why I am trying to establish a middle ground that doesn't involve compromising the police experience in all cases except when there are 128 players online.

This point would be viable if we could just raid PD because we want to wipe out the police force, unfortunately this requires criminals to know their friend is being arrested. Furthermore, the vast majority of expected PD raids are won by police as the PDs layout allows for some very dirty camping tactics I won’t delve into detail on (because I don’t want people to learn from it and kill me from said angles constantly). Even unexpected but detected PD Raids go difficult, as the raiders won’t have the liberty of just being able to hold one angle the whole raid, since the whole point is to escape.

Ill respond to every raised point in this thread soon.

This is a fair point, PD raids are not by any stretch easy for criminals, especially when there are TFU on. However, when they do happen, and they do happen fairly often, the officers who inevitably die, regardless of if it is a win or not for the PD, remain essentially crippled to do anything useful for 15 minutes unless they are picked up by someone who has to go out of their way to steer clear of the NLR zone, and happens to bring some extra ammo with them.

 

[northnortheast]

The only balance I see is either reducing slots, increasing police NLR or disallowing them from responding to a situation they've died in altogether.

I feel like possibly a solution to these issues raised could be a dynamic NLR timer, that depends on the percentage of officers online.
For example:

If 5% are police, then the NLR timer is 4 minutes
If 6-10% are police, then the NLR timer is 5 minutes
If 11-15% are police, then the NLR timer is 7 minutes
If >16% are police, then the NLR timer is 10 minutes

This would address my question of 'how does this scale for lower populations/officer counts' fairly well, but still leaves to be answered the inability of officers to do their jobs if their vehicles or equipment are in an NLR zone. What are your thoughts?

haveing NLR dose not mean stay afk it mean dont go back the the shootout place and the thing of being cop is not just to have fun on shootout you can do many think traffic regulation or investigation into a theft crime etc.....

Not even going to try to argue with this as it's clear you haven't read or understood my question or any of my follow-up statements.

 

[Allen Kennedy]

Maybe making a risk assessment before you raid a 12-man base when you know there's a large and well-organized PD is the best way to go.

 

[Dank]

There is an rebalance which has been in the work for months relating to organisations. This will radically nerf big orgs. I am leaving this until that has been trialed if it turns out that the PD is at that point gaining to much of an advantage we can nerf pd until then we leave this open as it is extremely hard to balance pd for dealing with both small groups and big groups

 

[Jack Bruhross]

Maybe making a risk assessment before you raid a 12-man base when you know there's a large and well-organized PD is the best way to go.

I am sorry to single you out here, and you will be one of the only people I reply to unless I feel the need to. As a well known crim main and well known person throughout the whole community and and within the staff team I have always made it clear, Big orgs should NEVER raid the smaller bases and it is stupid that they do. What you are saying here is you would rather me and my org rush young timmy over there who has a shotgun and is brand new to the server. No that is completely stupid and shouldn't be like that. The suggestion here is made due to the mass increase of players in the past few months. The server was never balanced imo for this high of a population and should be re-thought.

 

[Dank]

Maybe making a risk assessment before you raid a 12-man base when you know there's a large and well-organized PD is the best way to go.

That is a stupid argument. It would mean you cannot raid big bases

 

[Dom_]

There is an rebalance which has been in the work for months relating to organisations. This will radically nerf big orgs. I am leaving this until that has been trialed if it turns out that the PD is at that point gaining to much of an advantage we can nerf pd until then we leave this open as it is extremely hard to balance pd for dealing with both small groups and big groups

Sorry what

 

[Dom_]

There is an rebalance which has been in the work for months relating to organisations. This will radically nerf big orgs. I am leaving this until that has been trialed if it turns out that the PD is at that point gaining to much of an advantage we can nerf pd until then we leave this open as it is extremely hard to balance pd for dealing with both small groups and big groups

What happened to you making PD have a budget and reducing cop slots?

 

[Allen Kennedy]

I am sorry to single you out here, and you will be one of the only people I reply to unless I feel the need to. As a well known crim main and well known person throughout the whole community and and within the staff team I have always made it clear, Big orgs should NEVER raid the smaller bases and it is stupid that they do. What you are saying here is you would rather me and my org rush young timmy over there who has a shotgun and is brand new to the server. No that is completely stupid and shouldn't be like that. The suggestion here is made due to the mass increase of players in the past few months. The server was never balanced imo for this high of a population and should be re-thought.

My suggestion is that you recognise that when you attack large bases, you take into account what you're going to be up against and plan accordingly.

 

[Dehmon]

My suggestion is that you recognise that when you attack large bases, you take into account what you're going to be up against and plan accordingly.

well i would not say a projex apartment is a "big" base, i dont use ESP so i cant know that there are 12 people inside

 

[Allen Kennedy]

That is a stupid argument. It would mean you cannot raid big bases

No, it means that you plan accordingly, and recognize that if you fail to do so, it's at your peril.

 

[Clarky]

There is an rebalance which has been in the work for months relating to organisations. This will radically nerf big orgs. I am leaving this until that has been trialed if it turns out that the PD is at that point gaining to much of an advantage we can nerf pd until then we leave this open as it is extremely hard to balance pd for dealing with both small groups and big groups

What does this have to do with anything? You're kinda just leaving us in the mud here, elaborate more into detail what changes are being done?

 

[Dank]

What does this have to do with anything? You're kinda just leaving us in the mud here, elaborate more into detail what changes are being done?

I’m not going into detail as it has nothing to do with this thread. All that is said is I will leave this open until the changes have been trialed

 

[Bnjemann]

The unwinnable equation that is PERP:

If raiding in small groups vs large population PD:
- Break in, defenders either call cops when you break in or when they hear someone in the stairs.
- Fight defenders and possibly die to a defence as they have an advantage.
- If you win, Fight the cops who either responded to a 911 call or heard the shots, since gunshot distance is huge, in some cases even with suppressors, making this whole "Dont get caught" thing completely void.
- Die to the cops who are 8 to 1 outnumbering your party.
- Cops get a fraction of the money you'd have gotten through confiscations.
"Just get more people to raid with".
This is:
- Completely futile.
- Likelihood of reward is slim to nil
- If the defenders lose, and the raiders lose, Then everyone who spent a penny on the whole situation lost out.

If raiding in a larger group:
- Break in, outnumber the defenders 10 to 1 giving them no real chance.
- Outgun the whole police force.
- Only a fraction of the raiding party get any sort of financial gain, since you cant split 3 guns between 8 people and splitting drugs gained from the raid means the profit will literally be pennies, so its first come first serve basis on the loot.

This is:
- Unfair on the people you raided as the profits only are gained by a fraction of the raiding party.
- Doesn't even yield that big of a prize compared to effort put in.
- Overall creates a far more toxic environment.
"/ooc Fucking zerg, we stand no chance against big org"

Either way, This is something people complain about in some way, shape or form.

I always think going equipped for the task at hand is what would make perp balanced logically, Unfortunately raiding a crack den with a .38 and maybe an UZI, which would be the realistic choice, Is absolutely futile. We should be able to raid shithole apartments with .38's without cops knowing, But people just call cops to defend their drug operations, even if they don't, The cheapest apartments made to be a shithole area for drug operations is a stone throw away from 3 Government facilities.

Make crime harder to detect somehow. The full police response should be a punishment for lacking in the stealth department, Not a guaranteed result of so much as a missclick with a gun.

 

[amir]

didn't read this at all but i highly agree with your statement Jamie

 

[ALOO89]

so simple change 3,5 or 5.3

on 5.3

If a civilian has died whilst raiding a property, they must wait 1 hour after they have respawned before attempting to raid, or assist others in raiding that property.

Players who died whilst being raided may also not return to the situation until it has finished

 

[Sindarin]

so simple change 3,5 or 5.3

on 5.3

5.3 doesn't apply to cops, since its a rule governing being raided, or raiding, two things that don't happen with cops, it would make more sense for a edit to 3.5 (If this was necessary)

 

[ALOO89]

5.3 doesn't apply to cops, it would make more sense for a edit to 3.5 (If this was necessary)

cops can go back to the same place where they died

Civ cant flank for there friend if they where being raid or get raided