Rule Suggestion (3.5 New Life Rule)

[Jack Bruhross]

Suggestion Topic: 3.5 New Life Rule
Suggestion Description: Add a longer nlr period for cops, Currently during in raids on the server it is extremely hard to raid. There are far to many cops to deal with before you can deal with the defenders inside the house you are raiding. Ill give some examples below.

Yesterday while raiding a projex apartment it appeared to be 12 people inside, This alone is a hard task to deal with due to limitations of bombs and floorbanging/raiding. ontop of this we had to deal with around 15+ cops. By the time you manage to take care of the cops they are already coming back as a unlimited number. Yes I understand cops should be "op" But if a big org like my own cant raid I am almost certain (newplayer) john tim stands no chance at all.


I am open to other suggestions/inputs on this suggestion and I also recall @Efan a while ago poling if 5.3 was going to be changed (flanking your own raid as a crim). I think this is a huge problem and needs to be changed.

Why should this be added?:
- Gives everyone a fighting chance.
- Quality of life
- Make solo raid/raiding in a small group possible.
- Adds more balancing.
- (will add if suggested)

What negatives could this have?:
- Crim have ak.
- Crim have as50
- Cops wont be able to play deathmatch and run in aiming to only kill one before dying.
(willing to add more if suggested)

 

[Dehmon]

The reason I suggest this is that I have actually seen this lead to a 50-minute shootout between cops and orgs. If cops hadn't returned and if the criminals had left and given the cops a chance to go on about their day, this wouldn't be an issue in my mind.

I have personally had shootouts while defending my base last over 30 minutes a couple of times. It's really not fun after 20 minutes to keep on shooting endless waves of TFU. It's not really possible to even end the shootout fast even though we had killed 9 TFU throughout the shootout. Even if 1 cop or 1 medic survives the will just say it on radio and the cops will go right back. If cops cant go back it will change how its played for both sides, cops will probably not rush to kill one raider and instead play safely.

 

[KeiwaM]

I have personally had shootouts while defending my base last over 30 minutes a couple of times. It's really not fun after 20 minutes to keep on shooting endless waves of TFU. It's not really possible to even end the shootout fast even though we had killed 9 TFU throughout the shootout. Even if 1 cop or 1 medic survives the will just say it on radio and the cops will go right back. If cops cant go back it will change how its played for both sides, cops will probably not rush to kill one raider and instead play safely.

I 100% agree that in a raid, normal raid rules should apply to cops - meaning don't return to the same situation twice. It will encourage officers/TFU to actually back off, end the situation and then try again at a later point when it isn't the same raid. Gives criminals time to recover and gtfo. Cause rn, its impossible to leave a base when there's that one TFU sniper outside (yes talking about you dog (still love you))

 

[MalekIsWeird]

I think everybody is making up their own version of the main suggestion and in my opinion jamie had the best out of all here. Instead of any of these, a longer NLR period will suffice because it will at least make it so players are punished for sitting at the after math for too long but there is still a chance for criminals vs criminals to happen and even cop intervention all while keeping it fun for the criminals so that the cops can't just come back as soon as the victors barely defeated the defenders and the previous wave of cops.

 

[KeiwaM]

I think everybody is making up their own version of the main suggestion

The point of the Ideas & Suggestions-thread is to discuss said idea and discuss if there is a better way to solve/do it.

 

[MalekIsWeird]

The point of the Ideas & Suggestions-thread is to discuss said idea and discuss if there is a better way to solve/do it.

i know, the opener was just a filler to acknowledge everyone else's proposals but still stick with Jamie's proposal because in my opinion it's the best one still.

 

[ALOO89]

- Disallow Cops to return to raids after they have died there. Same rules as criminals.
- Strike down harder on people staying around crime scenes in public MORE. Cause it's being swept under the rug rn. With this I don't mean you can't do shootouts at all or that you can't grab your dead pal's gun, but there's a limit on how long you should spend on that. If that includes 2-3 minutes of just walking and collecting, nah. Get out instead when you have the chance.

The primary goal for raiding to make get money by (muging/killing geting guns / takeing drugs) so (personally if the coca have 75> i stay on the apartment waiting for it and if its weed i wait if its 60> becuse it finsh faster so i dont think 2-3 mins will be good ( you can try it by your self)

 

[KeiwaM]

The primary goal for raiding to make get money by (muging/killing geting guns / takeing drugs) so (personally if the coca have 75> i stay on the apartment waiting for it and if its weed i wait if its 60> becuse it finsh faster so i dont think 2-3 mins will be good ( you can try it by your self)

i would but u dipped last night before the raid xd

jokes aside, it's not as much meant for raids on properties in this, sorry if it appeared this way. The primary purpose of this is to make criminals stop gathering guns after a shootout in a public area, like my example, in intersection. I've spectated a scenario at Intersection. The one in question, at Intersection, where the criminals, after killing the cops, stuck around to collect guns. This ended up with cops trying to get back on patrol, even after waiting out their NLR, got shot again, because the crims spent like 7-8 minutes collecting dropped guns.

I will edit the quoted post to more accurately reflect what I meant with it.

 

[KeiwaM]

The primary goal for raiding to make get money by (muging/killing geting guns / takeing drugs) so (personally if the coca have 75> i stay on the apartment waiting for it and if its weed i wait if its 60> becuse it finsh faster so i dont think 2-3 mins will be good ( you can try it by your self)

Now that I am looking at it, I did point out in the post that it should only be enforced harder IN PUBLIC. So it wouldn't be relevant to a raid of a private property

 

[TylerReadman1]

I don't really understand why there is much of an argument to make it more fair for the majority of the playerbase. Like 80% of people play for shootouts (me inlcuded!!!)
If cops can outnumber a large org by 3:1, with armor, snipers etc I think its fair to make it so they can't come back

 

[MalekIsWeird]

The primary goal for raiding to make get money by (muging/killing geting guns / takeing drugs) so (personally if the coca have 75> i stay on the apartment waiting for it and if its weed i wait if its 60> becuse it finsh faster so i dont think 2-3 mins will be good ( you can try it by your self)

wait that's allowed? i was always told if you raid and cops respond you shouldn't stick around long no matter what and coca takes like 10 minutes to from 75% to 100%. Can you please clarify?

 

[KeiwaM]

wait that's allowed? i was always told if you raid and cops respond you shouldn't stick around long no matter what and coca takes like 10 minutes to from 75% to 100%. Can you please clarify?

It's kind of a bi-product of cops being allowed to respond multiple times - you're technically risking your freedom. The most relevant rule to this is 3.4:

• After committing a crime, relevant precautions should be taken to avoid arrest or police attention, such as avoiding public places.

It really just is a balance of risk vs reward. Is it worth it to stick around for one single planter with newly-planted weed? Probably not, but a full base with a lot of planters nearly done? Yeah.

The rule would still be relevant despite police not being allowed to respond again - because you still have to assume that they can.

 

[MalekIsWeird]

It's kind of a bi-product of cops being allowed to respond multiple times - you're technically risking your freedom. The most relevant rule to this is 3.4:

• After committing a crime, relevant precautions should be taken to avoid arrest or police attention, such as avoiding public places.

It really just is a balance of risk vs reward. Is it worth it to stick around for one single planter with newly-planted weed? Probably not, but a full base with a lot of planters nearly done? Yeah.

The rule would still be relevant despite police not being allowed to respond again - because you still have to assume that they can.

i think I understand. So you're saying it is allowed to defend a base with a planter over 75% and it would be allowed to wait until the plants are done even if it risks another police wave and that isn't a breakage of 3.4?

 

[KeiwaM]

i think I understand. So you're saying it is allowed to defend a base with a planter over 75% and it would be allowed to wait until the plants are done even if it risks another police wave and that isn't a breakage of 3.4?

it's very dependant on the situation at hand. Is the drugs you're about to get out of it worth it compared to the size of a new police wave?

But back to the main post lmao

 

[MalekIsWeird]

it's very dependant on the situation at hand. Is the drugs you're about to get out of it worth it compared to the size of a new police wave?

But back to the main post lmao

Oh sorry for prolonging this i should probably make a help and request so i can have you explain it freely there and maybe give me a few example scenarios so i can better grasp it as the way of measuring the worth vs risk is hard to get my head around.

 

[Fielding]

And to be fair, up until this day i feel as if cops are breaking 3.4 in many shootouts the way that they push and act. I feel like little cops value their life in shootouts at all tbh, rush b, die, nlr timer, rush back, eventually you win because you just overrun the enemy. Thats what i feel like is the thought process. I wanna see more use of tactics rather then rush b. I never liked this


Changing the rule to the better will radically improve and balance the play for all parts, and also encourage following the rules lmao.

Crims might even stop using so heavy equipment 24/7 because there isnt as much need for it as there might be today for instance.

 

[KeiwaM]

And to be fair, up until this day i feel as if cops are breaking 3.4 in many shootouts the way that they push and act. I feel like little cops value their life in shootouts at all tbh, rush b, die, nlr timer, rush back, eventually you win because you just overrun the enemy. Thats what i feel like is the thought process. I wanna see more use of tactics rather then rush b. I never liked this


Changing the rule to the better will radically improve and balance the play for all parts, and also encourage following the rules lmao

I think a cause of this is possibly Flanking.. It's impossible to know who is a flanker or where they will come from. Rather than fighting a battle on two sides, it's preferable to get in, do a blitzkrieg on the crims and then be ready for flankers. But I agree, this is not how it should be, and cops should value their life more (3.6)

 

[Madda]

Increasing NLR time is something I could actually get behind, rather than reducing cop slots. Scaling the timer on cops on duty or something similar might not be a terrible idea, to somewhat maintain the "difficulty" of dealing with cops while they are low in numbers.

 

[KeiwaM]

Increasing NLR time is something I could actually get behind, rather than reducing cop slots. Scaling the timer on cops on duty or something similar might not be a terrible idea, to somewhat maintain the "difficulty" of dealing with cops while they are low in numbers.

I am opposed to the idea of increasing NLR to cops due to the simple reason that if an incident happens at or around PD/Intersection, you are effectively making a cop useless for 15 minutes or more. That's way too long.

I prefer the idea of keeping NLR as it is BUT making cops unable to respond to the same situation after they have died. This way, you don't keep cops locked out of their job for too long if a situation happens, but they still won't be able to just keep responding.

To me, increasing NLR has the unnecessary consequense that you risk locking cops out of their job. By disallowing them from responding to the same shootout, you don't lock them off their job.

 

[Madda]

To me, increasing NLR has the unnecessary consequense that you risk locking cops out of their job. By disallowing them from responding to the same shootout, you don't lock them off their job.

Say you die at projex, you can still go do your job anywhere else as far as NLR goes. By disallowing them from responding to the same shootout they would still be locked out of the same area as an NLR zone, seeing as shootouts span over a lot of area so they should not go near anyways

 

[KeiwaM]

Say you die at projex, you can still go do your job anywhere else as far as NLR goes. By disallowing them from responding to the same shootout they would still be locked out of the same area as an NLR zone, seeing as shootouts span over a lot of area so they should not go near anyways

If a shootout happens at Intersection and the incident stops while you're dead, you still have 10 minutes NLR at the scene. 10 minutes where you can't drive past and go on patrol + 5 minutes dead.

If you simply disallow them from rejoining a scene, they can see that the scene has ended, which means after their 5 minutes NLR timer, they can go back on patrol, instead of having to wait the unnecessary NLR timer.

The argument really lies on what is honestly necessary. Either way, cops won't be able to respond to the same situation within the same timespan, however one has the side effect that cops will be completely locked off from entering an area for longer, whereas the other leave the cop able to go past it, but not rejoin active situations.