Shootouts and general gameplay on the server

[John Daymon]

Hello, I've recently come back to the community and I love most of it, the server is amazing and the community is at it's finest since 2013, which is great!

But we have something that has to be spoken about and that's rule 3.4 and how little care people has for the rule when it comes to shootouts, can you all just fuck off if there's a shootout, stop standing in the middle of it and stop trying to get involved in shootouts you're not involved in. Hide????


Then onto the next part which is the most annoying one; If you've just shot the PD up and other people just go fucking hide, if you have to hide in the forest? Tough shit, just go hide there since you've just made the decision to kill the PD and maybe some other people. Don't go pick up your mates who have just respawned, make them get a car. Don't go around looking to do bank robberies or whatever. Have one shootout then fuck off?

 

[Cody Garrett]

this is very true and i agree with every part of this text that John Daymon wrote in this evening

 

[John Daymon]

this is very true and i agree with every part of this text that John Daymon wrote in this evening

One of the most annoying parts is when people shoot you even though they're not wanted and none of us have a DNA tool

 

[Sneaky]

I feel the most effective way to deal with this is not being punished for shooting someone when they're in the shootout to be honest. I've shot (at) people who had absolutely no business at being at or near a shootout. People do it and then instantly F6 you for ShooTing AN Unarmed PerSon or something silly.

Also, to benefit roleplay i'd honestly want something of wanted indicator back. Back in the very old days you'd know you were wanted. Maybe being texted some kind of court papers, to keep it realistic, would be nice? People really often use the excuse 'i was wanted' to justify being more trigger-happy than a vietnam veteran holding a tree at gunpoint. When all this often does is cause unnecessary death and disruption of roleplay.

 

[curak]

I completly agree with Daymon on this. As a cop main I know very well this is a big issue and seldom people get punished for it. Everyone does it, so it's not against the rules right?

As @Sneaky mentioned it would be a good thing to not be punished anymore for shooting unarmed people in a shootout that has been going on for a very long time (should be both for IA and reports). Rather punish the guys for staying there for such a prolonged amount of time risking their life! In other words, if you kill an unarmed person, that had enough time to get himself out of the shootout, you shouldn't get punished!

Shootouts at bazaar are the worst, everytime there are these crafters, who just keep crafting in the front of their shop, however this is very annoying and them suddenly moving in the corner of your eye, distracts you from the real threat. A lot of them start yelling when you cuff them, "PLEASE LET ME KEEP CRAFTING". They shouldn't even be there, they can just move their workbench to the backroom of their shop and keep crafting during shootouts. Bazaar shootouts are aids, everyone just runs towards the shots instead of running away. If you want a justifiable reason to respond to shots fired go on duty as a police officer.

The community should crack down way harder on 3.4 rulebreaks, This includes everything i mentioned above but also people picking up their friends that just respawned (whilst wanted for a serious crime) or just in general not hiding after killing the entire PD. Currently crims mainly just bait cops after killing the pd, which just ends in a shootout that takes over an hour to end.

 

[Zayne]

I'll be sure to stand in the middle of a bazaar shootout just to piss you off.

edit: not that I don't agree or anything

 

[Nate]

But I want to shoot people

 

[Tyla Jai]

I think you’ve raised a very good point which people seem to agree with. Although it’s not mine or Ethan’s job to deal with rule breaks we will step in where this is deemed an issue by the community but there needs to be a practical way of dealing with this. I think some of the options from reading this are as follows?

• Increase enforcement of 3.4 of this type, starting with warnings for first offences
• Consider adding a new example to 3.4 to cover this
• Consider adding a new rule entirely covering this to make it easier to categorise as a “minor 3.4”
• Make a post from an administration / management point of view detailing what should be done in these circumstance and explaining action is going to be taken
• Allow “rdm” of people on shootouts? This one seems controversial

Please reply with ideas or thoughts on above

 

[Xeronise]

I think you’ve raised a very good point which people seem to agree with. Although it’s not mine or Ethan’s job to deal with rule breaks we will step in where this is deemed an issue by the community but there needs to be a practical way of dealing with this. I think some of the options from reading this are as follows?

• Increase enforcement of 3.4 of this type, starting with warnings for first offences
• Consider adding a new example to 3.4 to cover this
• Consider adding a new rule entirely covering this to make it easier to categorise as a “minor 3.4”
• Make a post from an administration / management point of view detailing what should be done in these circumstance and explaining action is going to be taken
• Allow “rdm” of people on shootouts? This one seems controversial

Please reply with ideas or thoughts on above

allow the rdm please
better kd

 

[Mina]

Allow “rdm” of people on shootouts? This one seems controversial

I think if people do stay around shootouts for a considerable amount of time they could be shot. A lot of time these are the same people who, after getting killed, make a report for being 'rdmed' or get reported for minge grabbing a gun after the shooter has died. Either make it more enforced, so people that actually do this are punished as right now I don't see this happening or make it so you are able to shoot them if they don't leave after a certain period of time.

 

[Clarky]

The minge grabbing is unreal and people get away with it so lightly

 

[John Daymon]

Would love to hear something from some admin or senior admin so I’m just gonna ping them

@Hayden @Madda @Hendricks @Super_ @Bolli @Collier @blackdown we’d like to have your input on this.

I remember I used to just slay people who kept starting shootouts or people who stay around the area

 

[Pugga]

As @Sneaky mentioned it would be a good thing to not be punished anymore for shooting unarmed people in a shootout that has been going on for a very long time (should be both for IA and reports). Rather punish the guys for staying there for such a prolonged amount of time risking their life! In other words, if you kill an unarmed person, that had enough time to get himself out of the shootout, you shouldn't get punished!

I used to just shoot everyone as a cop in a shootout if multiple officers had died before I had arrived. People should know when to leave and as a staff member the amount of reports we get saying “I was shot when unarmed” when they were near a shootout is silly.

If someone is watching a shootout feel free to shoot them, I won’t punish you for it and a lot of other staff will not. The only issue you will have as a cop is IA and It’s happend to me before.

Also when I do get the chance, if someone is lurking around a shootout that they are not involved in I will spam my godstick to kill people. It’s just as annoying for cops as it is for civilians and ngl, it makes people learn (ez 5min black screen)

This also doesn’t mean for people to abuse the fact on shooting everything and anyone and blaming that they we’re watching/within the shootout. If they have had enough time to leave and they are within the actual area itself then go ahead

But yeah, feel free to shoot people watching a shootout if they have had a reasonable amount of time to leave. Their problem sitting in a shootout they ain’t involved in


Edit: we also had a crackdown the other month on medics involved in shootouts with the police, this seems to off slipped up again massively. A medic should be outside the perimeter further away then any police officer but also ready to respond AFTER the situation is completely over and the scene is secured.

 

[John Daymon]

I used to just shoot everyone as a cop in a shootout if multiple officers had died before I had arrived. People should know when to leave and as a staff member the amount of reports we get saying “I was shot when armed” when they were near a shootout is silly.

If someone is watching a shootout feel free to shoot them, I won’t punish you for it and a lot of other staff will not. The only issue you will have as a cop is IA and It’s happend to me before.

Also when I do get the chance, if someone is lurking around a shootout that they are not involved in I will spam my godstick to kill people. It’s just as annoying for cops as it is for civilians

But yeah, feel free to shoot people watching a shootout if they have had a reasonable amount of time to leave. Their problem sitting in a shootout they ain’t involved in

Thank fuck for pug this man has today won his vote for best staff. Not just cus of this but fr this dude is carrying the staff.

 

[Madda]

Very good point, and a thing that has been a problem for way too long. I fully support and agree with what @Pugga said, and usually I don't have a problem with people just standing around being shot, I'm not sure what else they expect. As long as people who are trying to flee aren't purposely executed of course.

The best solution forward is probably to have a full staff meeting, create a plan on how to best deal with this, and go from there.

 

[Hayden]

Thanks for tagging me, @John Daymon you raise some very reasonable & valid points. A lot of what I already think has been said in this thread, and I don't want to echo too much. With regard to shootouts where people are loitering about, just shoot them if they're making no attempt to leave and protect their own life. For someone like myself who primarily plays police, this is a massive issue, as I frequently see people just standing about when there are heavy shots nearby. More recently, I responded to an officer down call at the Projex, and said this over my radio just as I left business. Some guy said something like "ooh, shots fired at Projex", and he decided to follow me down. When he was blocked in because police were being shot at, he was complaining like seriously, what the hell is that about. I personally think the best way to tackle this is to be a lot harsher with the way we handle 3.4, and specifically people not preserving their life in a shootout.

The issue surrounding people not hiding is also very apparent. These big groups of people will commit felony offences, and then just drive around when they don't always make a proper attempt to hide when they should. Yet again, increased and harder enforcement of 3.4 would likely help tackle this issue. All of these issues will be brought up in the staff meeting that will be held within the next couple of weeks. If there are any other issues you feel are apparent at the moment, then I would suggest raising this to a member of administration or posting it on the forums.

 

[2766]

When you say ”Go hide in the forest” what do you mean in practice? For 5minutes, 10minutes? If not time constrained, until what? You die of hunger?

 

[John Daymon]

When you say ”Go hide in the forest” what do you mean in practice? For 5minutes, 10minutes? If not time constrained, until what? You die of hunger?

I'd say for atleast an hour and a half, I mean let's be real if you've shot the whole PD up, you just driving around the city or going to bazaar would be violating rule 3.4 and 3.19, you're literally baiting it out. And if you can't be bothered hiding anymore just go turn yourself in, it's not that hard.

 

[Clarky]

I'd say for atleast an hour and a half, I mean let's be real if you've shot the whole PD up, you just driving around the city or going to bazaar would be violating rule 3.4 and 3.19, you're literally baiting it out. And if you can't be bothered hiding anymore just go turn yourself in, it's not that hard.

People will not be hiding for an hour and a half, that’s just ridiculously long though i get what you’re trying to say

 

[2766]

I'd say for atleast an hour and a half, I mean let's be real if you've shot the whole PD up, you just driving around the city or going to bazaar would be violating rule 3.4 and 3.19, you're literally baiting it out. And if you can't be bothered hiding anymore just go turn yourself in, it's not that hard.

Do you see anyone ever sitting in the forest for an hour and a half to hide from PD? I don't think it is reasonable to ask people to hide for that long.

The map is tiny, hiding in the forest will only delay being caught in the end. I understand the frustration of the PD being shot and blackscreened constans tly and I do agree that sometimes it is actually a matter of criminals just looking for a shootout. What I don't agree with is the sentiment that if you for example perform a raid and murder LEOs responding to that raid you now have to sit in the forest for 1h and 30minutes because otherwise it is 3.4. I agree that perhaps it would make sense to hide for 10-15 minutes and also not drive close to PD without a reasonable excuse while warranted. I think if you have hid and the search has died down from being an "active search" into a "passive search" like a BOLO, you should be allowed to go to the city and business area while attempting to evade contact with police.