Weight of discrimination bans and islamophobia.

[MalekIsWeird]

no because those are traits you are born with and are uncontrollable bro what how does that compare ever

That's a red herring? The main topic is if hate-speech towards a group regardless if it's aimed at an individual or the concept should be punished. The added pre-requisite for it to necessarily be a trait one is born with is irrelevant to the rule-system actively in place.

 

[Prkchop]

That's a red herring? The main topic is if hate-speech towards a group regardless if it's aimed at an individual or the concept should be punished. The added pre-requisite for it to necessarily be a trait one is born with is irrelevant to the rule-system actively in place.

I hate to break it to you but organized religion as a concept and ones sexuality or ethnicity are not comparable...

 

[Sorle]

That's a red herring? The main topic is if hate-speech towards a group regardless if it's aimed at an individual or the concept should be punished. The added pre-requisite for it to necessarily be a trait one is born with is irrelevant to the rule-system.

yes hate speech / genuine vitriolic disrespectful behaviour towards any faith should be punished, i was speaking flippantly in the first post

however the comparison you've made is rather abhorrent; faith cannot be immune to criticism as a subjective, chosen matter which has many implications on the morality of those following it - both race and sexuality are objective, uncontrolled traits which hold no moral implications so to portray them in the same light in that way is just really strange

 

[Deleted member 4084]

In order to think and say your opinion you risk being offensive, it does not automatically constitute as hate speech or discrimination.

If you understood the context to the situation, it would be far different and many Muslims would disagree with your point on the basis that again... context is key in this situation. I'm not going to sit here and explain it but it's just one of those.

not be doing is introducing a ban escalation process e.g. telling staff what they should be punishing and for how long.

I do completely agree, it is not how the team runs and how trust is created, allowing them to manage their own cases how they see fit, of course, but this point is specifically in ensuring that there are fair and just punishments for those who are Islamophobic.

I do feel that the majority of the comments do not understand Islam and many of the comments you bring are either a. lacking context or b. off-topic.
I'm by no means asking the staff team to automatically triple the punishment, but if we punish people and ban them for a year for saying racial slurs we can do the same for Islamophobic comments.

Whilst there are debates and questions about Islam and other faiths, which is completely acceptable there are also comments which are just made to offend and cause harm to a population and I do feel this should not be muddled up.

It's also important to note that our staff come from so many different countries and cultures so the severity may be perceived differently.

Part of a point I raised but didn't write, however, if I went to a Muslim staff member with that report there would definitely be a higher consequence for that person than if I went to a non-Muslim staff member which, to an extent, highlight the lack of clear and consistent punishments for discrimination.

I would find it beneficial if staff members were able to actively see community resolutions on SCAM as this was not something we were able to view nor was/is a feature, I do feel this would contribute to more consistent punishments for similar situations/issues that arise as well as informing the staff member of the resolution rather than the Discord threads.

 

[MalekIsWeird]

yes hate speech / genuine vitriolic disrespectful behaviour towards any faith should be punished, i was speaking flippantly in the first post

Yes I agree.

however the comparison you've made is rather abhorrent; faith cannot be immune to criticism as a subjective, chosen matter which has many implications on the morality of those following it - both race and sexuality are objective, uncontrolled traits which hold no moral implications so to portray them in the same light in that way is just really strange

The answer to why you find that comparison abhorrent lies within the same message you just sent. Our morality and beliefs differ, hence why I might feel entitled to criticizing a trait you said was natural due to my perspective on life. In my opinion, Despite us both possibly having the innate wish to articulate these beliefs anywhere, Such a community like PERPHEADS is directed at gaming primarily making it no place to criticize such things as they will always only lead to unwanted drama. Conclusively placing all forms of aforementioned criticism under breach of Forum Rule 1.4 Causing Problems.

 

[Tyla Jai]

So going by that logic is it valid to criticize the concept of Homosexuality or Racial Diversity in or out of character?

Genuine question

I mean correct me if I am wrong but the reason that doesn't work is because you would be criticising specifics rather than the broader subject

For example he is criticising the broader idea of religion, not specifically Islam or Christianity

The equivalent for your argument would be criticising sexuality or race which doesn't really work but they are the broader categories of homosexuality and racial diversity.

 

[Tyla Jai]

I would find it beneficial if staff members were able to actively see community resolutions on SCAM

They can be accessed in #player-monitoring

 

[Deleted member 4084]

They can be accessed in #player-monitoring

Would be more efficient having this feature on SCAM instead in some way, just a general suggestion but it's your thing so however you see fit and reasonable.

 

[MalekIsWeird]

That's a red herring? The main topic is if hate-speech towards a group regardless if it's aimed at an individual or the concept should be punished. The added pre-requisite for it to necessarily be a trait one is born with is irrelevant to the rule-system actively in place.

@Tyla Jai

 

[Tyla Jai]

Would be more efficient having this feature on SCAM instead in some way, just a general suggestion but it's your thing so however you see fit and reasonable.

We are all waiting on the forbidden notes section on SCAM to be added, it would go there

 

[Tyla Jai]

@Tyla Jai

?

 

[Sorle]

Yes I agree.

The answer to why you find that comparison abhorrent lies within the same message you just sent. Our morality and beliefs differ, hence why I might feel entitled to criticizing a trait you said was natural due to my perspective on life. In my opinion, Despite us both possibly having the innate wish to articulate these beliefs anywhere, Such a community like PERPHEADS is directed at gaming primarily making it no place to criticize such things as they will always only lead to unwanted drama. Conclusively placing all forms of aforementioned criticism under breach of Forum Rule 1.4 Causing Problems.

its just grossly offensive to even imply that you can justify feeling entitled to criticism on those things - by doing such you are criticising a person's very existence based on traits completely out of their control which have no standing on choice-based morality, that's not opinion-based that's just a disgusting thing to do to a person

yea fuck perpheads mate im talking about in wider scopes of life, its just incomparable entirely and i simply will not allow u to claim it as comparable and dismiss your evident lack of morality as a "differing in beliefs"

 

[MalekIsWeird]

?

The replied message is my argument for that point you had just made since that same point was already something I responded to when Sorle made it earlier.

 

[Tyla Jai]

The replied message is my argument for that point you had just made since that same point was already something I responded to when Sorle made it earlier.

Oh okay - politely disagree but that's all cool everyone here can have an opinion!

 

[MalekIsWeird]

its just grossly offensive to even imply that you can justify feeling entitled to criticism on those things - by doing such you are criticising a person's very existence based on traits completely out of their control which have no standing on choice-based morality, that's not opinion-based that's just a disgusting thing to do to a person

yea fuck perpheads mate im talking about in wider scopes of life, its just incomparable entirely and i simply will not allow u to claim it as comparable and dismiss your evident lack of morality as a "differing in beliefs"

Can you not see how you just simply proved my point? I expressed my opinion and it offended you resulting a problem. This is exactly why I wouldn't tolerate "critcism towards the concept of religion" since it still falls under the umbrella of causing problems and simply isn't fit for a Gaming Community forum in the first place.

 

[Deleted member 4084]

by doing such you are criticising a person's very existence based on traits completely out of their control

I could spin this and say, on a technicality, being Muslim is 'out of my control', but objectively that's a bias statement.
I do hear what you're saying and understand where you're coming from, but our community is just different and that's not easy to explain with this context.

 

[Tyla Jai]

I don't want to get too sucked into arguments just merely wanted to put the stance that Community Management would be taking with my first reply. I think my final thing here is to let you know Community Management have periodically and pro-actively reviewed bans for 1.1 and 1.2.

The last review was 14th January 2023 where approx 100 bans were reviewed and only one ban was changed and that was an extension from 2 months to 3 months.

If you ever feel a ban is unjust you can let me know but chances are I will not be changing it unless something is really wrong, the benefit is I can look into context behind bans and speak to staff whereas most players can't. I have and always do my best to make sure bans in this topic are fair and proportionate.

 

[Sorle]

I could spin this and say, on a technicality, being Muslim is 'out of my control', but objectively that's a bias statement.
I do hear what you're saying and understand where you're coming from, but our community is just different and that's not easy to explain with this context.

yh i mean i get that but the thing is is that faith is not directly intertwined with a persons whole being and entirely decided at birth with no avenues of change in life, it's not a biological character trait so a criticism on faith is much further separated from the individual and holds no actual bearing on individuals of faith - when the aforementioned traits are criticised, you are directly criticising an unchanging predetermined biological trait of a person which is much more connected to the person themselves and as such is just grossly unfair and offensive

faith is an opinion you hold, race/sexuality are predetermined facts of your life

but also yeah lets just not debate religion in a gmod community, prob for the best, got a bit carried away with my arguments pmsl ive been referring more to my opinions on real-life cases the whole time

 

[HuskyD0G]

organised religion is just fucking cringe overall so yea, not really too bothered to protect it unless individuals are being discriminated against which is not the case here

Couldn't have said it better, I despise religion overall but I don't go around harassing people. People who go out of their way to target people deserve to be banned

 

[Envy [SLAY]]

I feel like everything in terms of F6s or action requests or IAs or Staff Complaints or Warnings or ANYTHING on perp is completely dependent on the staff member that reviews it. I think that the number of times that something homophobic or racist happens is far more often than something Islamophobic happens. Even in the evidence that was provided by yourself or tyla you can see that it was dependent on the situation. Im 1000% positive that If I went through the scam bans I could find many cases of homophobia or racism that weren't punished to what I would consider reasonable.