Weight of discrimination bans and islamophobia.

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Deleted member 4084

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This is just a quick conversation on the handing out of punishments to people who are openly Islamophobic.

Whilst I was still playing on the server, and active in the community I had noticed there were numerous incidents where someone would be Islamophobic, or make a hatred comment towards an individual and get virtually no punishment/very little.

Recently I came across a ban apology thread which is here and it got me thinking, when someone is homophobic or racist they get far worse punishments, however, Islamophobic comments appear to warrant very little in regards to punishment length. To reiterate, steelo is a great person and by no means an issue but the general view needs to change within the community to deter this from becoming an "acceptable norm".

To further on from this, here is some notable information:
A couple of weeks ago I joined the server, and when I was playing I was told by a user that one of our prophets was a pedophile, and he liked to touch children which is abhorrent in nature, but by all figures Islamophobic. When I approach a staff member about this, I was told "Okay ngl, idk if blasphemy is really something we enforce... we don't do it for any other religion, I don't see why we'd enforce that under 1.2".

I will not be naming the staff member because I do not think they were in the wrong per se, however, I think there needs to be a clear message from community management that this is not to be tolerated, and that as a community we do not accept such hatred.

If we look at the bans page, we can identify numerous cases (of course, each is their own however there appears to be somewhat of a consistent theme and that is homophobic and racist comments are not permitted, but Islamophobic comments are tolerated to an extent)

Such cases are:
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Some may say there were additional circumstances leading to a higher ban, or that an apology may have made it a lesser ban. Maybe there are more circumstances, maybe the apology was genuine but the act was still committed and from what it appears, there is a disproportionate level of punishment given to the differing forms of discrimination. These images were taken from the first five pages, there will be more but the overall message is clear: there needs to be some form of community wide acceptance that there is no acceptance of this attitude or behaviour, and it should not be taken lightly.

Thanks for coming to my TEDTalk.
 
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It honestly really depends on the situation, I sometimes see homophobic/racism bans that aren't too severe either because the circumstances were completely different. I'd imagine if someone was, purposely and maliciously talking bad about people that are religious it would end in a far worse punishment.
 

Deleted member 4084

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It honestly really depends on the situation, I sometimes see homophobic/racism bans that aren't too severe either because the circumstances were completely different. I'd imagine if someone was, purposely and maliciously talking bad about people that are religious it would end in a far worse punishment.
I fully agree, but if you look at it purely objectively there appears to be a disproportionate response. I'm not asking for much other than a clear message from community management that this will be more strictly enforced.

If you take a look at this thread: https://perpheads.com/threads/ban-dispute-3izu.59411/#post-444871
This was the case I was discussing when told "idk if we enforce blasphemy" (it was not 3izu). The message from the staff member is not an issue because there needs to be a message from others telling them what an 'adequate' response is.
 
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What you listed that you reported to a staff member to be 'islamophobic' by default, is actually not. In order to think and say your opinion you risk being offensive, it does not automatically constitute as hate speech or discrimination.
 
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We decided that the goals of Community Management were to be changed in May 2022 to tackle toxicity which includes discrimination of all types, as-well as any person that has been identified as a repeated or serious violator of basic conduct rules, or any person that has demonstrated a course of conduct that amounts to harassment, toxicity or disrespect, or a safeguarding concern. The goals haven't changed and both @Efan and I feel we have steered the community in a very positive way regarding this in the last few years. It was only a few years ago people were being allowed to be completely openly discriminatory. I think I talk on behalf of Efan in saying that we have and will treat all forms of discrimination equally however something we will not be doing is introducing a ban escalation process e.g. telling staff what they should be punishing and for how long. There are many reasons for this one is that as bad as it sounds some discrimination bans are really not as severe as others, one-off incidents where a comment was made whether that is because it was a poorly received joke or because the player didn't realise it wasn't allowed because they hadn't read our rules properly these should not result in the same ban length as somebody who can't keep their race and religious views to themselves and is openly discriminatory any time they play. It's easy to look at these bans from an outside perspective and suggest that we aren't taking action towards islamophobia specifically but without knowing the context behind each and every punishment I think it's pretty unfair to say. I would encourage all staff members to bare this thread in mind however we also shouldn't be increasing ban lengths just because it's Islamophobic and staff should still be using their own judgement to decide what is a fair punishment. Just remember it is hard to synchronise the fairness judgements of over 40 different staff members and each and every person will have their own views as to how severe the discrimination is. It's also important to note that our staff come from so many different countries and cultures so the severity may be perceived differently.

Behind the scenes this goal of Community Management has not changed and in October 2023 we introduced three new types of punishment which you will not have seen or heard of unless you have triggered action from Community Management, these are:
  • Community Management Intervention - Conduct
    A warning which tells the player they need to make immediate correction or they will be removed from the community
  • Community Management Intervention - Conditional
    A warning for more specific cases where specific conditions will be given to the offending player
  • Community Management Intervention - Targeting
    A warning for players that have repeatedly targeted new players, correction required otherwise their inventory will be wiped
 
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organised religion is just fucking cringe overall so yea, not really too bothered to protect it unless individuals are being discriminated against which is not the case here
Exchange "Organized religion" with "Black people" or "Homosexuality" and you have a recipe for a CWB. Insane argument indeed...
 
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Exchange "Organized religion" with "Black people" or "Homosexuality" and you have a recipe for a CWB. Insane argument indeed...
notice how im not criticising the people but the concept of organised religion itself, i have nothing but respect for people who are religious and i am referring solely to the concept of organised religion here, and i dont mean to single out any one religion, it applies to all major organised religions in my eyes

theres actual arguments i have here but i am way too lazy to put the energy into explaining them right now
 
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notice how im not criticising the people but the concept of organised religion itself, i have nothing but respect for people who are religious and i am referring solely to the concept of organised religion here, and i dont mean to single out any one religion, it applies to all in my eyes

theres actual arguments i have here but i am way too lazy to put the energy into explaining them right now
So going by that logic is it valid to criticize the concept of Homosexuality or Racial Diversity in or out of character?

Genuine question
 
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So going by that logic is it valid to criticize the concept of Homosexuality or Racial Diversity in or out of character?

Genuine question
no because those are traits you are born with and are uncontrollable bro what how does that compare ever
 
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