Vehicles as weapons - a poll

[joey]

Hello,

POLICIES REGARDING USING THE SWAT VAN AS A WEAPON REMAIN UNMOVED BY THIS POLICY CHANGE

As some of you may have noticed, police have been reallowed to plough down you and your loved ones at 98mph into the business sector back wall with only an f6 to fear. edit- this is a joke, extortion of the policy - DONT DO IT

I, for one, think it’s absolutely absurd that they quietly removed; let alone removing it with a small announcement in the plpd.online shout box. The ramifications that this will have on roleplay is actually quite huge, care can be rammed into a crowd of carrots outside slums with no policy based repercussions.

I see no realistic - roleplay based - reason that we should let police officers use their car as a weapon for any lethal force situation. It could even be argued that a car is a non lethal weapon: I can rag doll someone with my car if used carefully; the taser has to be used carefully or it will kill people.

I am petitioning that this policy gets reintroduced and, pending petition, I expect a challenging explanation for this change.

 

[Palodhi]

It should 100% be changed to what it used to be or something similar. I disagree with anyone being able to use a car at any point without trying to take out the suspect another way first.

 

[Creepis]

I can rag doll someone with my car if used carefully

We all know Gmod vehicles suck ass, some cars ragdoll at the slightest bump and end up killing someone. Also realistically speaking, a car bumping into you is not non-lethal. You end up falling on to hard concrete, this can introduce fractures so it's not even a non-lethal option and can end up lethal.

I always said that Police should resort to their firearms to deal with criminals but even I get upset and proceed to run them over which is far easier, getting rid of another assault rifle equipped gun man in the open instead of getting trapped and 1 tapped (most of the times its the gunmans own fault for bad positioning so they have no right to bitch, criminals use their cars as weapons too so who cares).

 

[joey]

We all know Gmod vehicles suck ass, some cars ragdoll at the slightest bump and end up killing someone. Also realistically speaking, a car bumping into you is not non-lethal. You end up falling on to hard concrete, this can introduce fractures so it's not even a non-lethal option and can end up lethal.

I always said that Police should resort to their firearms to deal with criminals but even I get upset and proceed to run them over which is far easier, getting rid of another assault rifle equipped gun man in the open instead of getting trapped and 1 tapped (most of the times its the gunmans own fault for bad positioning so they have no right to bitch, criminals use their cars as weapons too so who cares).

I was trying to use it as a “I’m extending the policy change as far as I possibly can” if you get me?

 

[Auris]

ok so current law in america is they pose a threat to you or the public you can ram them with a motor vehicle so here is some advice DONT COMMIT CRIME also here a picture for some fun

 

[Sam]

and your loved ones at 98mph

@ShadowJoey this is not true now is it. Police Vehicles can be used as weapons if necessary. But not at 98 MPH, use of force, officer safety and public safety still applies.

Just because a line in the handbook has been removed does not mean officers can just run random people over, our lovely use of force needs to be considered. The removal will not change much ingame.
Officer safety is a big part that needs to be considered, if you die while running someone over then clearly you haven’t thought about your own safety, which is key.

 

[Sam]

It should 100% be changed to what it used to be or something similar. I disagree with anyone being able to use a car at any point without trying to take out the suspect another way first.

Why so? In some cases the safer way is to run the suspect over, especially if they are actively shooting at you.
Civilians do this on a daily, can’t even remember how many times a sport car has killed me during shootouts.

Officers still need to use the minimal amount of force necessary... this does not mean they can run people over at random.

 

[Jimmy]

The less shitty policies there are solely to give criminals an advantage the better. All of these policy suggestions are written by someone who is salty they died to a senior officer and lost their AK.

 

[joey]

This is from the perspective of me as a cop. Let’s be honest I rarely play anything but TFU main.

 

[joey]

@ShadowJoey this is not true now is it. Police Vehicles can be used as weapons if necessary. But not at 98 MPH, use of force, officer safety and public safety still applies.

Just because a line in the handbook has been removed does not mean officers can just run random people over, our lovely use of force needs to be considered. The removal will not change much ingame.
Officer safety is a big part that needs to be considered, if you die while running someone over then clearly you haven’t thought about your own safety, which is key.

There’s no definition of what constitutes as deadly force. The mechanic in game to rag doll someone with a car exists. If I see someone with a baseball bat swinging at a bloke or throwing bottles at a protest, what’s to stop me from running them over at slow speeds to rag doll them? If they get killed it’s their fault just as it would be if I nightsticked them one too many times

 

[Sam]

There’s no definition of what constitutes as deadly force. The mechanic in game to rag doll someone with a car exists. If I see someone with a baseball bat swinging at a bloke or throwing bottles at a protest, what’s to stop me from running them over at slow speeds to rag doll them? If they get killed it’s their fault just as it would be if I nightsticked them one too many times

It's called the use of force. While running someone over you should take into consideration the game mechanics. So if you run someone over while driving >5 MPH I would say it's considered deadly force.

You should always use the minimal amount of force, so using a car instead of a nightstick is not a valid argument. And anyone who tries to should be demoted to PO. The row in the handbook forbidding this did not stop this kind of behavior, it has always been perfectly allowed to run people over if absolutely needed.

 

[joey]

It's called the use of force. While running someone over you should take into consideration the game mechanics. So if you run someone over while driving >5 MPH I would say it's considered deadly force.

You should always use the minimal amount of force, so using a car instead of a nightstick is not a valid argument. And anyone who tries to should be demoted to PO. The row in the handbook forbidding this did not stop this kind of behavior, it has always been perfectly allowed to run people over if absolutely needed.

They’ve taken out the exact definition of it being a last resort (deadly force that a firearm isn’t sensible for) this gives people wiggle room

 

[Lelios1]

There’s no definition of what constitutes as deadly force. The mechanic in game to rag doll someone with a car exists. If I see someone with a baseball bat swinging at a bloke or throwing bottles at a protest, what’s to stop me from running them over at slow speeds to rag doll them? If they get killed it’s their fault just as it would be if I nightsticked them one too many times

What? It's their fault if they get killed by the car you decided to run them over with?

 

[Sam]

They’ve taken out the exact definition of it being a last resort (deadly force that a firearm isn’t sensible for) this gives people wiggle room

No, it does not. You claim it's now allowed to run into a suspect while driving 98MPH, resulting in you hitting a brick wall. This is not allowed. If you think that I would suggest you talk to your Command Team so they can explain use of force and officer safety to you. Additionally, cops can't crash their cars for no reason. That would be criminal damage!

 

[Sam]

They’ve taken out the exact definition of it being a last resort (deadly force that a firearm isn’t sensible for) this gives people wiggle room

@ShadowJoey This change just reflects how police cars are currently being used. And I would know this as I was there when this was talked about...
The day you as a criminal stop killing me while driving 65MPH, I will stop using my car to kill you. Thanks

 

[Collier]

As some of you may have noticed, police have been reallowed to plough down you and your loved ones at 98mph into the business sector back wall with only an f6 to fear.

This is a ridiculous statement and is so obviously untrue I am frankly surprised a Sergeant in the PD would write this. 2/3 of those things were not covered by the 'last resort' handbook entry anyway and much rather are a duty of care violation, which is considered gross misconduct by the way.

care can be rammed into a crowd of carrots outside slums with no policy based repercussions.

If doing so poses risk to civilians who would not otherwise be engaged with lethal force as per the use of force policy, this is also incorrect and considered both excessive force and covered by duty of care also.

EDIT: Apparently I can only quote once per reply?

 

[Mina]

I think that police should be allowed to use their car as Civilians can do it just the same. The only reason must people would disagree is because they stand behind their car in the middle of a shootout and then get run over and cry about how bad the cop is in OOC. If you are killing cops left right and centre then I don't see any reason why a cop couldn't try and run you over to save a lot of lives, especially if they know they would probably not be able to kill you with their Pistol.
#takebackthestreets

 

[Palodhi]

Why so? In some cases the safer way is to run the suspect over, especially if they are actively shooting at you.
Civilians do this on a daily, can’t even remember how many times a sport car has killed me during shootouts.

Officers still need to use the minimal amount of force necessary... this does not mean they can run people over at random.

Yeah I agree with your point but I feel like other means of taking down a suspect should be used first. I feel this is going to be used against 1 person by them self not heavily armed at all and I don't see the point of that. There should be some type of points where it can or can't be used. However, I agree that using a car at some points is valid due to the amount of suspects and weapons they have.

 

[Sam]

Yeah I agree with your point but I feel like other means of taking down a suspect should be used first. I feel this is going to be used against 1 person by them self not heavily armed at all and I don't see the point of that. There should be some type of points where it can or can't be used. However, I agree that using a car at some points is valid due to the amount of suspects and weapons they have.

The only thing you need is use of force. You literally (@Collier I will now use this word as much as Chris) do not need 1000 policies or points in a handbook to stop retarded things from happening.
Everybody understands that you can not use your car as a weapon unless absolutely necessary.

 

[FatGeorge]

I’m sorry but to all the people saying yes. Why? The police are fully equipped with armour and weaponry for a reason. I think it’s stupid that police drive around shootouts with no intent to shoot? You are given vehicles to transport suspects and patrol and respond to places, the weapons are for lethal force not your vehicle.

ovviously I agree with certain intentions such as a police officer being outmanned and running AWAY from the shootout with an armed shooter in the road. My point I’m trying to make is I think it’s ridiculous how some officers weapon of choose if their vehicle. Makes no logical sense and is silly.