The PLPD is a joke

[dzukee]

Hello everybody, I am here once again to give my unsolicited opinion on the forums.

This one's been brewing in my brain creases for a while. I was a part of the PLPD when we first started making the full move to PLPD online (ask any IA investigator about the spreadsheet, it was traumatising,) and I've noticed that the quality of officers has seriously deteriorated.

I want to make it clear, by no means is this the fault of any specific member of the department. All command members work for free to help run this thing and I'm grateful there are still people dedicated to the project. This is, in my opinion, just a part of a wider problem.

Firstly, let's talk observation reports. They're ineffective at actually judging the effectiveness of any officer. A majority of the time, an officer who wants one can barely even get a corporal+ who's interested in writing one. I've heard "I've already done 2 this month" more often than I could count. There is no ability to recognise officers for a single act of good policing. Back in my day, we had commendations, which were able to be issued for either a single notable act or an entire patrol. I feel these should be brought back, in conjunction with patrol reports, so that CPL+ isn't so "burderened" by the horrors of writing observation reports.

The main issue I have is that all cops are way too shootout hungry. Officers will literally drop anything they're responding to if a shootout comes up, leading to a lack of actual decent policing and just a constant TDM between police and zerg criminals. Only a handful of officers both enforcing traffic laws, and barely anyone can roleplay for shit. It's all just measuring what you can do against policy and as soon as an arbritrary policy threshold is crossed, doing that thing. The radio is basically just people screaming over each other about the latest shootout and nobody could give a shit about anything less. A lot of the time, TFO are essentially permanently geared in some form, and will never deal with anything except a shootout. What's the point in being a police officer if you don't do any actual police work?

There's seldom any tactical thought put into anything either. Pistol cops are so hungry to be the one to get the kill that they rush into properties and get shot before even firing a bullet. Breaches are predictable and sluggish and nobody holds a perimeter anymore.

The PLPD was never perfect, but we used to have a lot more officers who cared about the little things. Who would be reasonable and try to roleplay as somebody who actually valued their life. Supervisors used to carry authority and actually cared about the behaviour of lower ranked officers.

The whole culture feels like it's shifted. There's probably no solution, because this isn't just a police problem, but rather a wider issue with the quality of roleplay on the server.

Idk, rant over, thank you for coming to my ted talk.

I fully agree. What you said about the Observation reports is so true. One time I asked maybe 10 different corporals for a OR and all of them said the exact same thing. "Ah the city is too intense now", "I already gave two OR's ". I dont understand how it is fair promoting people like this. They have no will to watch people grow their career in the PD. This is the main reason I personally do not enjoy PD at the moment because of this. Feels like I am stuck and will never get promoted. Numerous times I have asked higher ups to arrange a OR and told them about stuff like this they dont seem to care. Unless you ask them about OR then they will try doing something, otherwise they dont give a flying crap. I rarely see someone on PD ranked cpl+ asking lower ranked officers "do you want an OR" or "do you want to patrol with me" never.

 

[dzukee]

That's what I'm getting at.

If you are trying to get promoted or get certs, it's detrimental to do things like traffic violations, going after people for jwalking, and things that people consider Police RP. Even if you are not worried about getting promoted, you still have to worry about interacting with those situations because it does carry a risk of being demoted for what basically amounts to small mistakes.

And the real shit sandwich about all of this is that you still have to deal with people acting like complete toddlers. Some people could be RP'ing the freakout, but I have absolutely seen several people go full crashout and threaten to file F6s and IAs because they didn't get their way. After a certain point you would figure Excess Negativity would come into play because sweet jesus some people on here need a Xanax.

Just report them for FailRP, because they are breaking server rules mentioning OOC stuff. Tired of hearing Im gonna file an IA or F6 just do it. Most of the time they aint do shit fr.

 

[ExcelentAxelent]

This was with 128 pop, this is the problem if everyone hops off duty when Dispatch comes on (not the case this time just bare officers). When multiple shootouts happen this is kind of a pain as we have to dedicate 90% of the officers to one incident as they are mostly regular (pistol) officers and therefore for the officers safety at least 3 or 4 are needed at a scene. If another incident then happens and there is just 1 available unit left, they get instantly blasted by like 5 raiders With AR's and scream for additionals that aren't there making them die and also hop off duty.

Basically moral of the story, if you want dispatch to do well, guide them but don't hop off duty cause dispatch can hardly do their job if there's only a handful of officers only.

 

[unscsnip3r]

I've had at least 2 new Sgts asking me if road crew or firefighters are gov employees or not, not having their guns out during a hostage situations

Just want to reply to this on two points:

1. RC being gov is constantly being debated and its fairly unclear even now. Probably needs a rule amendment to confirm this.

2. To fair on cpls, the patrol resources have 0 guides for this, its solely in the TFO guidlines, which you would only ever read if going to tfo l1+

Edit thanks to those who pointed out rc in the penal code.

 

[lencz]

1. RC being gov is constantly being debated and its fairly unclear even now. Probably needs a rule amendment to confirm this.

It's also pretty clearly stated in the penal code. Including Colliers reply.

 

[Acerius]

Im sure @Acerius can weigh in somewhat about the strain it makes IA go through in some respect i would also appreciate the insight into it

The PD is a classic example of a catch-22. Those of us who have been and stayed around for a prolonged period of time will know that nothing dramatic has changed or shifted, but rather the PD debate is cyclical:
> People complain that the bar of entry for specialist divisions and higher ranks is too high for people who don't 'main' or 'sweat' PD
> Community shouts at PD Command to improve the situation
> PD Command works with Developers and others to introduce new ways of doing things and lowering the bar of entry as asked to make it more accessible
> People complain that the bar of entry for specialist divisions and higher ranks is too low and is leading to a poor capability of LEOs
> Community shouts at PD Command to improve the situation
> PD Command alters those ways of working and makes them slightly tougher to try and improve standards, and works to get rid of existing LEOs who do not meet standards or are underperforming
> People complain that the bar of entry for specialist divisions and higher ranks is too high for people who don't 'main' or 'sweat' PD

This cycle has been ebbing and flowing ever since the formalisation of the PD, with those swings between the different camps/states of play happening more frequently and less intensely as we move forward.

In my view, there's no perfect solution to the question of the PD. It's a case of people having to decide which trade-offs they would prefer to take, because you can't both have your cake and eat it. You either:

• Raise standards and bars of entry to ensure a higher quality within the LEO pool (both ranks and divisions), accepting that there may be those who likely have the capability but cannot overcome those hurdles
• Lower standards and bars of entry to keep the LEO pool accessible, accepting that while this does open it up to those who may have had capability but were previously unable under those aforementioned higher standards, it also opens it up to those who simply do not have capability and aren't/will likely never be good LEOs

You also have to consider that those who call for higher standards and making things harder to achieve would likely not even meet those standards themselves. They may then say "oh, well we went too far in the other direction" but it's more likely the reality is that they simply do not have that capability.

I think people hinge or focus too deeply on things like the Observation Report system. I'm not saying it's fit for purpose or doesn't matter but to be honest it's immaterial in terms of the bigger picture. Culture is the biggest driving factor, and what people want from the PD, and how hard they're willing to work to achieve it - even if it means they themselves have to be excluded.

If I'm being brutally honest, I don't see a way of solving all of the issues for all of the people. You can address the majority of issues for the majority of people on one side of the debate, but it will always be to the detriment of the other side. Whichever side has the strongest voice is what seems to ebb and flow, and thus causes that cycle I mentioned above.

 

[Ava Fox]

its just a joke going to jail for nothing it all a joke

 

[Ava Fox]

what? idk it just waffle

 

[Mage]

I've seen a lot of talk about Dispatch in this thread. Honestly I'm not a fan of Dispatch command being dissolved and the responsibilities being absorbed by Patrol. At the time, I did agree with it, but with how things turned out, it's painful to see.

First of all, literally no one from Patrol Command actually plays Dispatch, this isn't meant to flame anyone, it's just the truth. At least the previous Dispatch team consisted of people who enjoyed the role and were frequently seen on duty. The current command team has, combined, less than 10 hours in Dispatch this entire year, despite being the ones responsible for overseeing and improving it.

Also, from what I can tell in the dispatch handbook, the current application process is a significant downgrade. It used to be MCQ -> Written Exam -> Mandatory live session with Dispatch Command -> Pass/Fail. Now it's just a fully automated MCQ and if you pass, you become a Probationary dispatcher with immediate access to go on duty alone.

With the bar set so low, it's obvious people will get frustrated when a dispatcher is on duty. There are more of them now, but the quality has taken a drastic hit. And when you consider how much control dispatch has over how others play, the drop in quality has a real impact on how enjoyable it is to be on duty. Especially during high-pop times, the job is way too intense to be managed by one player, often times they are overloaded and it leads to slower response times or key information being missed because everything is funneled through dispatch.

A good dispatcher is incredibly valuable, arguably even overpowered, but unfortunately, they're becoming increasingly rare. I think this comes down to a few factors, but a key issue is the lack of experienced dispatchers for newer ones to learn from. With Patrol Command barely touching the role, there's no real leadership or example being set within the role as with the previous iteration when it had it's own command team.

So I think this ties back to what Acer just wrote, and I think given how it is now, I'm on the side where I would rather see Dispatch going back to being heavily gatekept with a proper, challenging application process than see it handed out rather freely.

 

[hyushi123]

I've seen a lot of talk about Dispatch in this thread. Honestly I'm not a fan of Dispatch command being dissolved and the responsibilities being absorbed by Patrol. At the time, I did agree with it, but with how things turned out, it's painful to see.

First of all, literally no one from Patrol Command actually plays Dispatch, this isn't meant to flame anyone, it's just the truth. At least the previous Dispatch team consisted of people who enjoyed the role and were frequently seen on duty. The current command team has, combined, less than 10 hours in Dispatch this entire year, despite being the ones responsible for overseeing and improving it.

Also, from what I can tell in the dispatch handbook, the current application process is a significant downgrade. It used to be MCQ -> Written Exam -> Mandatory live session with Dispatch Command -> Pass/Fail. Now it's just a fully automated MCQ and if you pass, you become a Probationary dispatcher with immediate access to go on duty alone.

With the bar set so low, it's obvious people will get frustrated when a dispatcher is on duty. There are more of them now, but the quality has taken a drastic hit. And when you consider how much control dispatch has over how others play, the drop in quality has a real impact on how enjoyable it is to be on duty. Especially during high-pop times, the job is way too intense to be managed by one player, often times they are overloaded and it leads to slower response times or key information being missed because everything is funneled through dispatch.

A good dispatcher is incredibly valuable, arguably even overpowered, but unfortunately, they're becoming increasingly rare. I think this comes down to a few factors, but a key issue is the lack of experienced dispatchers for newer ones to learn from. With Patrol Command barely touching the role, there's no real leadership or example being set within the role as with the previous iteration when it had it's own command team.

So I think this ties back to what Acer just wrote, and I think given how it is now, I'm on the side where I would rather see Dispatch going back to being heavily gatekept with a proper, challenging application process than see it handed out rather freely.

Honestly i cannot agree more with mage. While on duty ive witnessed soo many types of dispatchers. There are indeed some that do their job flawlessly, handling everything corespondingly, however ive personally seen dispatchers that find it "fun" to make fun of other units over the public radio during crutial situations instead of actually doing their job. Dispatch needs a serious improvement and i think reverting it back to the old application and command team would definatelly do it

 

[unscsnip3r]

I've seen a lot of talk about Dispatch in this thread. Honestly I'm not a fan of Dispatch command being dissolved and the responsibilities being absorbed by Patrol. At the time, I did agree with it, but with how things turned out, it's painful to see.

First of all, literally no one from Patrol Command actually plays Dispatch, this isn't meant to flame anyone, it's just the truth. At least the previous Dispatch team consisted of people who enjoyed the role and were frequently seen on duty. The current command team has, combined, less than 10 hours in Dispatch this entire year, despite being the ones responsible for overseeing and improving it.

Also, from what I can tell in the dispatch handbook, the current application process is a significant downgrade. It used to be MCQ -> Written Exam -> Mandatory live session with Dispatch Command -> Pass/Fail. Now it's just a fully automated MCQ and if you pass, you become a Probationary dispatcher with immediate access to go on duty alone.

With the bar set so low, it's obvious people will get frustrated when a dispatcher is on duty. There are more of them now, but the quality has taken a drastic hit. And when you consider how much control dispatch has over how others play, the drop in quality has a real impact on how enjoyable it is to be on duty. Especially during high-pop times, the job is way too intense to be managed by one player, often times they are overloaded and it leads to slower response times or key information being missed because everything is funneled through dispatch.

A good dispatcher is incredibly valuable, arguably even overpowered, but unfortunately, they're becoming increasingly rare. I think this comes down to a few factors, but a key issue is the lack of experienced dispatchers for newer ones to learn from. With Patrol Command barely touching the role, there's no real leadership or example being set within the role as with the previous iteration when it had it's own command team.

So I think this ties back to what Acer just wrote, and I think given how it is now, I'm on the side where I would rather see Dispatch going back to being heavily gatekept with a proper, challenging application process than see it handed out rather freely.

Absolutely this

Before when Apollo was dispatch command was when I was very active there was a mandatory review within 2 weeks and a review once every 1-2 months. Back then you had folks like Tyrone and Axel absolutely leading the charge and the quality was showing- Now unless its a dispatch I know can perform well, I always have my doubts.

I would absolutely prefer to have at least an assessment to qualify then at least a once a quarter test by a more senior dispatcher.

The division needs a full progression rework much like TFO has had, not effective sidelining which it feels like.

 

[AstroNoodle]

The PD is a classic example of a catch-22. Those of us who have been and stayed around for a prolonged period of time will know that nothing dramatic has changed or shifted, but rather the PD debate is cyclical:
> People complain that the bar of entry for specialist divisions and higher ranks is too high for people who don't 'main' or 'sweat' PD
> Community shouts at PD Command to improve the situation
> PD Command works with Developers and others to introduce new ways of doing things and lowering the bar of entry as asked to make it more accessible
> People complain that the bar of entry for specialist divisions and higher ranks is too low and is leading to a poor capability of LEOs
> Community shouts at PD Command to improve the situation
> PD Command alters those ways of working and makes them slightly tougher to try and improve standards, and works to get rid of existing LEOs who do not meet standards or are underperforming
> People complain that the bar of entry for specialist divisions and higher ranks is too high for people who don't 'main' or 'sweat' PD

This cycle has been ebbing and flowing ever since the formalisation of the PD, with those swings between the different camps/states of play happening more frequently and less intensely as we move forward.

In my view, there's no perfect solution to the question of the PD. It's a case of people having to decide which trade-offs they would prefer to take, because you can't both have your cake and eat it. You either:

• Raise standards and bars of entry to ensure a higher quality within the LEO pool (both ranks and divisions), accepting that there may be those who likely have the capability but cannot overcome those hurdles
• Lower standards and bars of entry to keep the LEO pool accessible, accepting that while this does open it up to those who may have had capability but were previously unable under those aforementioned higher standards, it also opens it up to those who simply do not have capability and aren't/will likely never be good LEOs

You also have to consider that those who call for higher standards and making things harder to achieve would likely not even meet those standards themselves. They may then say "oh, well we went too far in the other direction" but it's more likely the reality is that they simply do not have that capability.

I think people hinge or focus too deeply on things like the Observation Report system. I'm not saying it's fit for purpose or doesn't matter but to be honest it's immaterial in terms of the bigger picture. Culture is the biggest driving factor, and what people want from the PD, and how hard they're willing to work to achieve it - even if it means they themselves have to be excluded.

If I'm being brutally honest, I don't see a way of solving all of the issues for all of the people. You can address the majority of issues for the majority of people on one side of the debate, but it will always be to the detriment of the other side. Whichever side has the strongest voice is what seems to ebb and flow, and thus causes that cycle I mentioned above.

I very much agree with the fact that lowering standards for applications will have a negative effect on the PD as a whole. I personally feel that its better to have high standards to enure that the people who apply and pass the different applications are very much engaged in the PD and acctually want to make things better. Even if it makes people loose their rank the quality of those who remain are of a higher standard. I'd rather have only 10 highly qualified people being Sergeant than to have 60 mediocer/good Sergeants active cause those 10 people are going to do everything in their power to stay in that position and that means making the best of their active playtime. It also sets a real standard of what it means to be Sergeant.

 

[unscsnip3r]

It's also pretty clearly stated in the penal code. Including Colliers reply.View attachment 27150

Thanks for this, unfortunately collier's response appears removed

 

[exrobite]

On a side note, back in my day we used to confiscate guns if they were used by defenders to facilitate illegal activities (guard drugs,) but now it seems like we just give them back??? Very odd.

 

[Prkchop]

On a side note, back in my day we used to confiscate guns if they were used by defenders to facilitate illegal activities (guard drugs,) but now it seems like we just give them back??? Very odd.

This is definitely something that confused me a lot as a returning officer. Seems very strange.

 

[exrobite]

This is definitely something that confused me a lot as a returning officer. Seems very strange.

I suspect this was changed to make people hate the PLPD a little bit less, but...

I feel like the police should actually be disliked by criminals, but like, ingame???? anyone who takes it OOC is just a salty nerd.

 

[unscsnip3r]

This is definitely something that confused me a lot as a returning officer. Seems very strange.

Honestly I have wondered this, as it seems plain as day to me as its the case that they are used to elicit crime still so it should surely be part of asset forfeit part of tickets.

 

[Prkchop]

I suspect this was changed to make people hate the PLPD a little bit less, but...

I feel like the police should actually be disliked by criminals, but like, ingame???? anyone who takes it OOC is just a salty nerd.

Well let’s be real everyone already hates cops ic and ooc. Even more than they did a year or two ago when I was most active. Asset forfeiture is almost a given when creating illicit substances. All you have to do is hide the drugs and there wouldn’t be an issue.

 

[exrobite]

Well let’s be real everyone already hates cops ic and ooc. Even more than they did a year or two ago when I was most active. Asset forfeiture is almost a given when creating illicit substances. All you have to do is hide the drugs and there wouldn’t be an issue.

Very silly.... Without cops it would be a lame old city......

 

[Collier]

On a side note, back in my day we used to confiscate guns if they were used by defenders to facilitate illegal activities (guard drugs,) but now it seems like we just give them back??? Very odd.

You had me up until this post...

The Police should only really be confiscating instruments of the crime, which guns are not. I find the argument that the guns were used to "guard drugs" incredibly weak as you can grow drugs without a gun and defend your home without drugs. First and foremost, you are protecting your life. Most people would still shoot at their raiders with drugs or without, meaning the resulting pile of bodies would generally look exactly the same.

Beyond this, the knowledge that your guns might be confiscated if a cop responds to your home being raided disincentivises defenders from co-operating with the Police. From my experience. this change has resulted in less aggressive interactions between home owners and the Police. I personally tend to be quite agreeable with defenders because I think it's incredibly obnoxious when cops go fishing for random bullshit to try to fuck over defenders when they happen upon their property.