Criminal Roleplay is a joke

[.....]

Roleplay in general is dead. I think that the reason for it is that it never leads to some kind of beneficial outcome, instead it is mostly haha funny moments. For roleplay to be encouraged as a crim you also need to have the right mechanics and rules.

Examples:

Using a hostage to rob the bank or help yourself escape after it? Not allowed, literally preventing any kind of roleplay situation that can come out of it in order to make the whole robbery not a shooting fest.

Engaging in drug deals? Not possible or profitable in any way. Criminals sell leaves with a cash register (where they also pay a tax on it), preventing any kind of criminal roleplay other than pressing E to buy said leaves.

Buying drugs from other people and creating some kind of a middleman economy so players don't have to go themselves and take the risk of being mugged because its too dangerous? Why would someone sell it to you, they can just carry a taurus, sell, maybe get shot, blackscreen and keep all of the money when they respawn.

In other words i think that there need to be some changes within some mechanics/rules. AFAIK there is currently a drug update in the works and I really hope that the roleplaying aspect of the gamemode is taken in to account there in a sense where it encourages it.

 

[jimb0]

criminal roleplay = ban 90% of the time or it will just be the same repetitive thing

agreed look at my record

 

[HarryThompson]

Using a hostage to rob the bank or help yourself escape after it? Not allowed, literally preventing any kind of roleplay situation that can come out of it in order to make the whole robbery not a shooting fest.

especially this. I think a bank raid should be a situation where you especially have to RP, instead of a fun shootout that you win 1/10 times. IRL if a bank raid comes to the point where there is a stand of with the police, the best thing for all parties isnt to shoot eachother, because both sides looses something there. Negotiations and hostage taking should play a big factor in the bank robbery.
Take for an example most fiveM servers. In those there most likely is a rule that states that you HAVE to have hostages in order to rob the bank, cus killing an entire police department is not realistic in real life, and almost impossible if your not a giga chad with the best gaming chair.
I mean the police in real life would do anything to prevent a bloodbath because that would be a disaster.
Also pls make it so that you can be outside the bank when robbing it.

 

[rogue]

Myself, @GP, @Maia and @peeps have had lengthy discussions on how we can improve the experience and deficit overall when it comes to criminal RP.

Most of the time it boils down to the groups and how they want to play; criminal groups want to min/max their experience in the game and want little to do with roleplay in general. They just want to battle with shootouts, and make as much money as possible; the RP is pretty secondary. This also applies to police who a lot of them just want the same thing. While I don't see this as ruining the gamemode, it can lead to poor RP quality

Really the only direction we can go in is to implement game-changing features, buffs and nerfs that stop groups getting too overpowered. It doesn't matter how many rules or worded directions we implement, if the actual game doesn't forcibly change the way someone plays then people will continue to take the path of least resistance.

Changing the way organisations work, putting growing limits on buildings and preventing certain combat actions are just some of the major changes we've implemented to try and make it more challenging and involving when it comes to combat and competitiveness.

As long as they don't break the rules whilst doing this then there's not much we can do on the RP front - it's up to the individual how they want the scene to play out. A lot of people's idea of 'RP' really isn't fun or engaging to people on the receiving end; like hostage situations that take far too long, kidnappings that have very unreasonable expectations, just to name a few.

Ultimately the gamemode is about shooting and being a crim or cop with passive elements involved; it's the environment we've set ourselves up in and will continue to be a part of. I'm hoping re-implementing the Monthly Spotlight will incentivise people to improve the quality of RP!

 

[Caveric Jonson]

I'm hoping re-implementing the Monthly Spotlight will incentivise people to improve the quality of RP!

When it was around in the past the amount of shootouts and lack of RP was damn near the same as it is now so I’m not sure how you can think it’ll help if I’m being honest. Not trying to be rude but I feel like the monthly spotlight did not have an effect on producing more role play.

 

[bigsmat]

Rifles are not rare, raiders have deep pockets, this is why bum RP is top tier
Putting urself in the world of Defend Grow Raid and expecting roleplay is idealism

 

[eggward (Steward)]

In general there isn't that much roleplay happening on perpheads.
From what I have seen in some videos, the original PERP gamemode wasn't that much different than it is today. It was still the Grow, Raid, Grow, Raid and repeat type of thing.
Due to the fact that rotting inside a base and powergrowing for hours on end is the best way to earn money, people don't do other 'roleplay' stuff.

 

[Cavarey♫]

Server is not stimulating any rp either. You would suspect admins to play a role in this, or ''helpers'' in that sense, but not really any of that is happening.

 

[bigsmat]

There is plenty of roleplay opportunities available, you just have to go out and find them, new players are specially amazing to be around given they aren't a psychopathic murderer. I think the current slums design is amazing, as long as it isn't getting raided by full teams of AK's with bombs, you can have a lot of interactions in slums by just going on the fire escape and talking to people.

 

[Cavarey♫]

There is plenty of roleplay opportunities available, you just have to go out and find them, new players are specially amazing to be around given they aren't a psychopathic murderer. I think the current slums design is amazing, as long as it isn't getting raided by full teams of AK's with bombs, you can have a lot of interactions in slums by just going on the fire escape and talking to people.

Agreed for sure! But roleplaying is not specifically talking to random people or new people for that matter. I think the idea of this thread is that roleplay is just not being done enough by the ''hardcore'' perp players. The newer players are a lot more open for these type of stuff rather than the main audience of Perp. Then again, there is not much to be gained regarding a certain reward other than receiving a potential shoutout on the forums.

Its not really serious RP, more Cops and Robbers RP.

 

[Anthony]

Rules are too rigid to allow people to feel comfortable in experimenting with their gameplay. Interacting with Admins in an F6 feels like you're negotiating a russian roulette with 5 bullets in the chamber.

It feels like there are a few mods that have genuine compassion and understanding, but there are a fair few that if you get them in a report; you just resign your fate.

Now I'm not saying - dont enforce the rules, I'm just saying it should be seen in such a fashion that if a Player genuinely did a mistake without intent, they shouldnt be banned and refunds issued, if it is within full intent then yeah ban them.

Long time players are afraid of accidently stepping out of line and New players accidently trip on land mines they cant even see because of a convuluted (If you know, you know) ruleset.

===

I'll give you an example, with Mayoral Assassinations;

If the Mayor is near the Police you are allowed to kill him but simultaneously not allowed.

- Killing the Mayor when he approaches a PD Officer is not allowed

- Killing the Mayor when PD is remaining near him for an "extended period of time", is allowed.

How exactly is someone supposed to understand this rule without being expressly told, or experiencing the rulebreak by accidently committing it? Many such cases.

 

[money]

I'll give you an example, with Mayoral Assassinations;

If the Mayor is near the Police you are allowed to kill him but simultaneously not allowed.

- Killing the Mayor when he approaches a PD Officer is not allowed

- Killing the Mayor when PD is remaining near him for an "extended period of time", is allowed.

How exactly is someone supposed to understand this rule without being expressly told, or experiencing the rulebreak by accidently committing it? Many such cases.

When looking at rules you should stick to terminology where they claim to emulate real life.
In rule 3.4, amongst other things, it talks about minimizing risk and avoiding police attention whenever committing (serious, in this case, murder) crimes. This is due to the fact you're likely to attract even more police, increasing the risk of death (or arrest, alerting them if you kill a civilian so they can gather evidence).
It's not possible to list every variation of all crime and circumstance without flooding rules more (against what you want), so somewhere common sense must be applied. The examples listed in 3.4 provide guidance in case to show what is clearly in violation but only when you do not fulfill the basic condition of the rule (see below)

The crime you want to commit is murder the Mayor. You do so for:
1. Beneficial and realistic reasons, taking measures to avoid death or imprisonment ✔
2. Taking precautions - in this case, you wait in shadows to see if and when a Mayor leaves police view. If this doesn't come in a reasonable time, demonstrating this to a staff member will be simple if your demo is requested. ✔
3. Committing serious crime in front of police - 3.4 speaks against this, however this example doesn't apply to you as you fulfill the basic conditions of the rule stated in point 1 (and two) ✔

So, ultimately, you can infringe any example that goes against 3.4 in the rule, as long as you fulfill the basic conditions of the rule (what is above examples). Examples show what is in violation often if not followed. So, if I just stole loads of cash from someone and police knows it, I can book it over the highway on foot if necessary, as long as it is beneficial and realistic enough and worth the risk as per 3.4, where you minimize chance of death

 

[Hja!te]

Alright, another rant. It seems only fair that criminal RP gets the criticism it deserves as well.

It feels like the average criminal has drifted heavily towards the absolute worst kinds of behaviours for roleplay. All they do is wait until they have a reason to KoS you, without considering any actual roleplay, then they pull up in a supercar with a rifle and blast you down where you stand. It's lazy and boring. I get that you want the sweet org combat xp, but please, be more creative with the things that you do. You might have more fun.

Additionally, most of the high end orgs just have no class or roleplay to them whatsoever. Organisations are treated as clash of clans clans protecting each others bases or whatever instead of actually contributing to roleplay in any way. Why do the "special" forces do what they do? What meaningful personality seperates them from the "Paralake Ballas" or the "hoodrats", apart from the clothes they wear? How do they interact with each other outside of raiding? Usually just very petty or boring insults. There's no class, and certainly no attempt to create fun roleplay.

As soon as anyone in a given org gets a reason to kos cops, that whole org will just pull up and start shooting, causing large scale shootouts that usually lead to everyone dead, or another one down the line when the PD attempts to apprehend them again. Again, no roleplay whatsoever, just criminal orgs farming combat xp. Hostage situations are frankly a joke. Often times people assume because they have a hostage they are completely safe and cry in OOC when it doesn't go their way. Hostage situations are not initiated from a desire to roleplay a hostage sit, instead to further their goals in breaking out friends or stalling to shoot cops.

If anyone loses a raid (in general, but moreso on crim,) then they will scour their knowledge of the rules to find one little thing that the other party did wrong and then beg for a refund request on their $20,000 gun while they have $4,000,000 in the bank and a fully upgraded super car.

I was visiting a lovely roleplay church hosted by @Cody Sharpe, and during that time he talked about how he had been mugged or shot while trying to operate, and it really made me sad. It seems that a lot of criminals do not want to engage in any kind of meaningful RP, and instead will mug anyone who even steps over the arbitrary boundaries outlined in the mugging map, or raid those who don't.

It makes the server feel dead when everbody plays like this, because they're either hold up in a base hiding from cops, growing, or in situations that the average onlooker cannot interact with without being in violation of the rules.

People also forget that, you can just lie to cops? you don't have to leave the guy who you shot in the head for dead, you can call cops, lie, knowing that unless witnessed by a government employee they have no solid evidence, and then go about your day. Instead, people choose the very boring option of running away and shooting cops.

I've demonstrated to a few people now that good roleplay is not dead, you just have to be open to find it. I used the analogy "accept every sidequest" last night, and I think it is fitting. Go along with a lot of stuff, be mindful of being mugged and don't immediately jump to shooting people. It works wonders for the quality of experience you will have interacting with other players. You don't have to make money to have a good time, and indeed, being ok with losing things and sometimes surrendering to police is fine. @Caveric Jonson and @Oddy can probably attest to the hijinx I have gotten up to recently, and I had a lot of fun being arrested / trying to talk my way out of things with them.

TL;DR: do better criminals, be funnier and less greedy.

I don't think perpheads is for you then

 

[MalekIsWeird]

Often times people assume because they have a hostage they are completely safe and cry in OOC when it doesn't go their way. Hostage situations are not initiated from a desire to roleplay a hostage sit, instead to further their goals in breaking out friends or stalling to shoot cops.

I agree with most of what you said except this quote.

It's impossible to roleplay a good hostage situation for a variety of reasons outside just "Crims just want to shoot."

You've got:

1) Pistol cops that get hired on after a pop quiz hungry for a shootout
2) TFU and cops in general being blood thirsty for an angle to get a lazy win by head tapping the hostage taker
3) Even WHEN Free passage is given, if you try to trust the police's "good faith" and drive away after they WILL always shoot your tires.

I think maybe the problem could be the lack of a "Good faith," Agreement possibility.

So many new cops coming in that it makes it hard to reliably trust that cops wont just up and kill you the second they have an angle. Like you said, It's ok to not win sometimes if its for the betterment of roleplay.

While maybe you might be able to argue that the crims in hostage sits are accountable for some things, but certainly not all. I argue that their hands are nowadays constantly forced because in hostage situations it proven time and time again that cops are the polar opposite of good faith. Once in a blue moon will you have a genuine police response where not even the lowest ranking officer will shoot even if they know they can easily get a lazy win. Unfortunately, in the majority of times it seems like most are not ready to abstain.

Personally if I find that a hostage taker genuinely wants to roleplay a good hostage situation, I will gladly negotiate even if its one hostage taker with a knife but if I did so I only can imagine how many colleagues would roast me for it or probably get upset and start yelling at me to hurry up.

From my perspective it's a sad reality but maybe someone else can give some input on this take that may help find a possible solution.

 

[Caveric Jonson]

I agree with most of what you said except this quote.

It's impossible to roleplay a good hostage situation for a variety of reasons outside just "Crims just want to shoot."

You've got:

1) Pistol cops that get hired on after a pop quiz hungry for a shootout
2) TFU and cops in general being blood thirsty for an angle to get a lazy win by head tapping the hostage taker
3) Even WHEN Free passage is given, if you try to trust the police's "good faith" and drive away after they WILL always shoot your tires.

I think maybe the problem could be the lack of a "Good faith," Agreement possibility.

So many new cops coming in that it makes it hard to reliably trust that cops wont just up and kill you the second they have an angle. Like you said, It's ok to not win sometimes if its for the betterment of roleplay.

While maybe you might be able to argue that the crims in hostage sits are accountable for some things, but certainly not all. I argue that their hands are nowadays constantly forced because in hostage situations it proven time and time again that cops are the polar opposite of good faith. Once in a blue moon will you have a genuine police response where not even the lowest ranking officer will shoot even if they know they can easily get a lazy win. Unfortunately, in the majority of times it seems like most are not ready to abstain.

Personally if I find that a hostage taker genuinely wants to roleplay a good hostage situation, I will gladly negotiate even if its one hostage taker with a knife but if I did so I only can imagine how many colleagues would roast me for it or probably get upset and start yelling at me to hurry up.

From my perspective it's a sad reality but maybe someone else can give some input on this take that may help find a possible solution.

I don’t know what hostage situations you’ve been to but lately every single one has ended with crims just shooting the negotiator or throwing nades while we are mid sentence with them. It’s a crim issue not a PD issue. There has been a few threads calling out crims for just shooting mid negotiations when it’s going in THEIR favor and just decide to shoot making the situation a shitshow when it’s unneeded

 

[Gamble]

I agree with most of what you said except this quote.

It's impossible to roleplay a good hostage situation for a variety of reasons outside just "Crims just want to shoot."

You've got:

1) Pistol cops that get hired on after a pop quiz hungry for a shootout
2) TFU and cops in general being blood thirsty for an angle to get a lazy win by head tapping the hostage taker
3) Even WHEN Free passage is given, if you try to trust the police's "good faith" and drive away after they WILL always shoot your tires.

I think maybe the problem could be the lack of a "Good faith," Agreement possibility.

So many new cops coming in that it makes it hard to reliably trust that cops wont just up and kill you the second they have an angle. Like you said, It's ok to not win sometimes if its for the betterment of roleplay.

While maybe you might be able to argue that the crims in hostage sits are accountable for some things, but certainly not all. I argue that their hands are nowadays constantly forced because in hostage situations it proven time and time again that cops are the polar opposite of good faith. Once in a blue moon will you have a genuine police response where not even the lowest ranking officer will shoot even if they know they can easily get a lazy win. Unfortunately, in the majority of times it seems like most are not ready to abstain.

Personally if I find that a hostage taker genuinely wants to roleplay a good hostage situation, I will gladly negotiate even if its one hostage taker with a knife but if I did so I only can imagine how many colleagues would roast me for it or probably get upset and start yelling at me to hurry up.

From my perspective it's a sad reality but maybe someone else can give some input on this take that may help find a possible solution.

I agree with this. Yesterday I was roleplaying a hostage situation, and the roleplay was going great until a random TFU decided it was a good idea to just open fire on the crims while they had the hostage gunpointed and were making their way out. They complain a lot about us crims not roleplaying properly but in most cases you just meet trigger happy cops.

 

[Tarone Idrin (mohammed)]

I don’t know what hostage situations you’ve been to but lately every single one has ended with crims just shooting the negotiator or throwing nades while we are mid sentence with them. It’s a crim issue not a PD issue. There has been a few threads calling out crims for just shooting mid negotiations when it’s going in THEIR favor and just decide to shoot making the situation a shitshow when it’s unneeded

Dude this is ironic didnt u literally 1 tap me mid hostage sit?

 

[Caveric Jonson]

Dude this is ironic didnt u literally 1 tap me mid hostage sit?

Yeah first time I’ve personally seen PD engage first in ages and I just so happened to be the one doing it lol my point still stands.

 

[Tarone Idrin (mohammed)]

Yeah first time I’ve personally seen PD engage first in ages and I just so happened to be the one doing it lol my point still stands.

So youre crying about getting killed by crims first and then when I tried rping a hostage sit with you, you one tapped me??

 

[Lushi]

So youre crying about getting killed by crims first and then when I tried rping a hostage sit with you, you one tapped me??

He cant just simply one tap you. You did something resulting in getting killed in a hostage situation. A cop cant just simply ignore the hostage situation and simply kill you.