Helper Role seperate to staff

[Daigestive]

Description of the idea: As we discussed in the meeting, a lot of people believe helper should be a non administrative role but a way for experienced players to show rule and game knowledge by helping new players and being assigned to new players that do not know what to do when joining the server. Bolli said this used to be an issue as people would just apply for enforcer. I dont think that would be an issue as if someone isnt good enough for enforcer they could show they have the incentive to be staff and help from the helper role.

Why should this be added? (pros):
-Makes more sense

What negatives could this have? (cons):
-dk

 

[Deleted member 6228]

@obidan66

 

[daniel]

@Inchs In the meeting yesterday they said that they were going back on what they said and making them into a staff role

 

[obidan66]

@Inchs Like I said. I do NOT care what Rogue or Collier said. I just handed you the definition that was written directly into the Community Update. Take it or leave it. Youre welcome.

 

[Deleted member 6228]

@obidan66 And then conflicting information is handed out by people who are literally helpers or the highest rank you can achieve in the staff team?

 

[Rayz]

@obidan66 Maybe if you actually were active on the server you might have some more information rather than only forum posts

 

[flugs]

@obidan66 The hostility really isn’t needed.

To add to the discussion, Helpers are simply experienced community members who are given slightly more privileges to help out other people. Whether we are staff or not being a Helper isn’t about the power you get and more about your intention to actually help other people.

We definitely need more clarity, maybe a single post dedicated to explaining in detail the powers, authority and purpose of Helpers.

 

[Jimmy]

I don't feel like new players need a babysitter. I certainly wouldn't have wanted one when I first played. Tutorial quests from NPCs that give some starter equipment like planters, seeds, a pistol and some ammo would be much more useful.

If I connected for the first time, got picked up by a yellow physgun and get condescendingly told that I am now under the tutelage of the PH Helper squad I'd probably disconnect instantly.

 

[Bnjemann]

I agree with this actually.

 

[obidan66]

@Rayz Btw: I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about, not only because I read community updates, which you really shouldn't think is lesser, as they are the official statements and provide the official definitions for these things. But I'm pretty much every day around 5 Helpers who are a part of the same organization as I am, so I can witness first hand how they operate and their contributions to the server and the community at large.

Get your facts checked first before jumping to conclusions.

 

[Mim]

@obidan66 Can we just drop this conversation, it's a suggestion forum. The hostility and the constant arguing isn't going to get anyone anywhere, leave your vote and constructive comment and that's it.

 

[rogue]

@jjjackier WHERE'S YOUR PROOF HUH SLANDERKIER

 

[John Daymon]

Here's what @Madda sent to us helpers when we got our ranks;

Hello, and welcome to the team!

The purpose of this is just to go over some of your duties as helpers, and let you ask any questions you should have. First of all, you will get a few new permissions both in game and on the forums, which include(Still subject to change):

• Phys-gunning players
• No limit to ooc & help chat
• Forum permissions to move, lock & delete threads

I may have forgotten some permissions, if so I'll add them on later.

Although you have a new set of permissions, it is important to remember that you're not staff members, and should not get involved with any administrative work both on the forums and in game. This also means that should you break a rule, or a community member believes you've broken a rule, it will be dealt with through either a report or AR.

The main purpose of this role is to give community members who want to help out the community in some way an opportunity to do so. Helper is also the first step to becoming a staff member, although you're of course not required to apply for enforcer. Therefore there is no activity requirements for this rank. Your main duties as a Helper, is to help out both old & new community members with questions they should have, and help them find their way around the community.

This is the basics of being a helper, things surrounding this role is still subject to change as we are still in the early stages of implementing this into our team. If you have any questions, feel free to reply here or send me, @Bolli or @Collier a PM.


Update:

You're allowed to moderate the shoutbox/forums and should have been given the correct tools to do so. If players believe you're abusing in any way they should still create a report or an AR.


I hope this helps you understand the role a bit better.

 

[Adrish]

Just to clear things up, from the Community Meeting yesterday, it was stated by SA that Helpers are indeed staff members due to the permissions we have been given. This means that:

- If you think that a Helper is breaking the rule or abusing -> Make a staff complaint

The Problems:

Now, with that said. I do agree that Helper has been given out quite generously to a few people including myself. Like I voiced yesterday, I do believe the fact that there is no 'quota' or 'activity requirement' will lead to a numerous amount of people to stay hibernating with the rank Helper. And once they're bored and remember they can physgun people and cars etc, they can easily come on and abuse it. Who wouldn't? Especially if in a years time, you got the rank a while ago and no longer play PERP or want to.

Another thing I've seen floating around, is what can Helpers actually do? You can see from what Daymon mentioned we have the ability to physgun, issue OOC timeouts/bans, unlimited Help and OOC chat and some forum permissions. From different perspectives, and to different staff members, this rank can do a lot. If I see a member blatantly breaking rules, I can pick them up, speak to a staff member and essentially get them banned (the same way enforcers used to do it). Yes, sure it isn't something under a Helper's job descriptions, but with such powers, what else can you expect? In the same way, if people believe OOC timeouts are given for no reason, what is there to moderate this? Yes it's very minor and it's just an OOC chat, but some people will be annoyed and upset if they feel they have been wrongfully timed out from the OOC.

Proposed Solutions:

To combat this, I suggest that there should be some sort of activity requirement, but not as harsh as enforcers/moderators. Active helpers should be Enforcers/Proper staff ranks. Inactive staff should be Helper. However, if there is a helper who hasn't been active at all with his helper duties, there should be no '3 stage notice' before removing them. Due to it being a rank many can obtain, it should be more like if someone is very unactive, maybe if they haven't done anything in 3 months. You send a PM, wait a day or 2, then remove the rank. This will stop us from having a number of totally inactive helpers in the community.

A proper set out description of what a Helper should do, and what they should avoid. Should we have a say in handing out bans, or do we make reports when we see a rule break? What if there are no staff members on, should helpers be pro-actively trying to assist players with rule break associated situations?

To touch on the actual topic of this thread, should helper roles be separate to staff? Personally, with the permissions we have. It wouldn't make any sense at all to make it separate to staff, unless the permissions were changed to the point that the only thing we can do is use the help chat. I actually feel that Helper is not the rank that will help PERP (pun not intended). It's a rank that was added alongside Senior-Moderator and Community Manager on a whim that it may help the server. There was no thorough thought process, a proper meeting. Just an idea they thought would bring structure into the staff team and actually get things done. Community Manager, is a rank that should be added. Someone to relay the messages from the community to the staff team and get things done. Helper is a glorified rank, and so is Senior Mod. They claim they don't want to demote admins until they have people to replace them? What about the mods that became Senior? Surely they could replace Admins if they could fit the senior-mod role?

What we really need is the SA team to clear this up, hopefully you guys can schedule a meeting alongside the Community Manager, maybe a few helpers and a few people from PERP who show genuine concern and can actually provide something constructive.

Below I will @ a couple of people that I think should be at the meeting alongside @Ayjay @Bolli @Madda @Collier

@Code Monkey, @John Daymon @Daigestive @Inchs @Dom_ @LEWIS 088 and maybe even myself.

If you guys could organise this, as you please and get back to us. That would be great, as I believe all this really needs is just clarification and thorough thought.

 

[Collier]

As per what was said in the meeting yesterday, we went back on the decision to treat Helpers as normal players. Changes to the Helper role will be made and announced soon.

 

[Deleted member 5577]

@Collier by changes do you mean getting rid of it pls ty

 

[Mallard]

rogue i see you banning people from the shoutbox quite often

 

[Code Monkey]

Would love to join this conversation. Thanks for the great points Adrish

 

[John Daymon]

@Adrish

I agree with a lot of the points you make in your thread and I understand the reason why people are annoyed over the fact that helpers are given such powers as picking up players...

However with the recent changes that was made to the enforcer rank I do still believe that the old permissions that an enforcer used to have is necessary for the server, someone on the spot that can see the situations happening infront of their eyes without any demo files having to be sent, that's why I love the concept of the old enforcer rank; simply because you're in the middle of it all and most of the people who are helpers; come to the server to play and not afk while waiting for reports.

I do wish to have a meeting with the people that you tagged in your post as I feel all of us need to talk about the current rank and it's permissions.

 

[Daigestive]

I feel that helpers should only be able to use their physgun perms to help new players instead of enforcing the rules.

Enforcers+ should be the ones enforcing the rules. Because of the lack of perms its just dumb when yo usee cars getting physgunned or players by someone that cant noclip or deeal with admin sits.

 

[jjjackier]

I feel like Helpers should tell people in LOOC if they're breaking a rule or not, just like any other player, but they shouldn't be allowed to "enforce" the rule. Basically I'm not going to use my physgun on them or anything because it's simply not my job.