SERVER ECONOMY (DISCUSSION)
- Thread starter Husky
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #3
A server economy is necessary but is going to be a disaster and likely lead to the exit of most players.
- Thread starter
- #4
Spend a day doing drugs and you'll be set for a month
If you would reset everyting you would for some people delete 7 years of hard work. I don't think they will stay on the server much longer and start all over. In my opinion perp has always been a grind game. But if you do it long enough its not strange you will have mutiple supercars. Thats just the way it is. We could ofcourse make drugs worth less overtime. If we slowly change the ecnomy it might just work.
Obviously, which is why we didn't back then and still can't today. Unfortunately if the complaint is about how people have multiple supercars, there's realistically nothing that can be done as cars are already essentially an "end game" kind of thing at this time with no particular change to that in mind or ideas that are practical.
It was fine before, its too easy to make money now imo, I think reverting the drug update/Decreasing the yield would help and eventually it would improve however, the damage has already been done. Look at @Jack Bushross
- Thread starter
- #10
@The HitMan I can't raid 24/7 Mr Byford!
This is one of the main reaosns perp is getting old. Everyone has their super car and their inventory worth millions, after a while it just gets old and no need to grow. The drug update is easy to get 10 mil in 2 weeks, it used to be so hard and you could have something to show for all your hard work
As a more serious reply than my original, even though clearly a reset has and will always be the most needed option but entirely out of the question...
This is a constant discussion I have with myself as it's something I do really want to address in some way. In Paralake City V5, whenever that is completed, we are hoping to create an entirely new system to the economy, which in some ways will launch the economy into even more chaos because of what it requires. Sadly there's no good solution that works for everyone though, if we simply raised vehicle prices that essentially gifts owners of those a ton of money when they're a reason that this discussion is even necessary. But lowering the prices would mean decreases to their net worth, lessens their achievements and means a lot of the time they spent is meaningless. So we can't really adjust those prices... What else can we do?
One thought would be, then why don't we add extra maintenance or costs associated with owning/operating a high value car? I recently saw someone post something about that into the Ideas&Suggestions area of the forums. While in theory it makes sense, the problem is people will object just to the sheer amount we would need to have this raise the cost by to have it even begin to be effective in having super cars not be the "norm". We also will get the argument about "what's so bad about having super cars being so prevalent?" Ideally I would say nothing because it shows how dedicated people are to PH and what all they've done in their time when on. However, when someone gets the car of their choice that they've been saving for, what more do we have to offer other than earn money for more cars? Not to say they should be forced to spend every dollar they earn on keeping up that one car, but what does work in a practical sense?
Then we get into the topic of prices of everything else, they hardly make sense, like a burger costing $55 or more. Not to mention the $150 bottle of water. While these seem crazy expensive and I agree, with how easy it is to earn that amount even by being unemployed, it is reasonable to have them be those prices. So yes the amount you earn from growing may receive some tweaks but I'm not going to guarantee that or any other change here.
Next we have the problem of limitations, as the only limit to people growing drugs is simply how many people are willing or able to raid them, but that isn't always a guarantee of lost profits either. Jobs on the other hand have definite limits as to how many can be on it, and how much is reasonable or able to be earned while doing that job. Since we try to have Paralake City not cook its books when doing accounting beyond a reasonable amount, taxes are the main way for it to earn money and it then uses that to pay the majority of the jobs we have available. So should we add more taxes to allow these jobs to flourish a bit more? Maybe. However, a lot of people will either look for the most profitable job or the one with the most action and skip all the rest unless they're new. This means drugs and police end up rising to the top when all others get ignored. The courier job is capable of earning quite a large amount, however it is a bit slow paced for many so it doesn't get utilized. So while people do want more jobs, the question is, how do we ensure they're actually used and earn what is considered "enough?"
No one likes losing anything which I can fully understand but in order to keep a balance, there has to be room for give and take. Right now though even if we take some resources away from the super rich (whatever that may mean), they will complain and object to even a slight change which negatively effects them (much like RL). Unfortunately in doing so it also will likely effect those on the lower end too but to a larger degree, which leaves us little room to work with other than to do things to nerf how organizations are structured or allowed to set up a base. But that has minimal effects really as they're still more than likely to outnumber or outgun the entire police force on average, so their drug production rarely sees a halt which means drugs need some sort of a decrease in price, quantity, speed, etc.
Anyways, those are just a few thoughts and musings of my own. Of course there's a lot more I could say about this, however as for solutions I am most curious to see if anyone comes up with some ideas or has additional thoughts within this discussion.
This is a constant discussion I have with myself as it's something I do really want to address in some way. In Paralake City V5, whenever that is completed, we are hoping to create an entirely new system to the economy, which in some ways will launch the economy into even more chaos because of what it requires. Sadly there's no good solution that works for everyone though, if we simply raised vehicle prices that essentially gifts owners of those a ton of money when they're a reason that this discussion is even necessary. But lowering the prices would mean decreases to their net worth, lessens their achievements and means a lot of the time they spent is meaningless. So we can't really adjust those prices... What else can we do?
One thought would be, then why don't we add extra maintenance or costs associated with owning/operating a high value car? I recently saw someone post something about that into the Ideas&Suggestions area of the forums. While in theory it makes sense, the problem is people will object just to the sheer amount we would need to have this raise the cost by to have it even begin to be effective in having super cars not be the "norm". We also will get the argument about "what's so bad about having super cars being so prevalent?" Ideally I would say nothing because it shows how dedicated people are to PH and what all they've done in their time when on. However, when someone gets the car of their choice that they've been saving for, what more do we have to offer other than earn money for more cars? Not to say they should be forced to spend every dollar they earn on keeping up that one car, but what does work in a practical sense?
Then we get into the topic of prices of everything else, they hardly make sense, like a burger costing $55 or more. Not to mention the $150 bottle of water. While these seem crazy expensive and I agree, with how easy it is to earn that amount even by being unemployed, it is reasonable to have them be those prices. So yes the amount you earn from growing may receive some tweaks but I'm not going to guarantee that or any other change here.
Next we have the problem of limitations, as the only limit to people growing drugs is simply how many people are willing or able to raid them, but that isn't always a guarantee of lost profits either. Jobs on the other hand have definite limits as to how many can be on it, and how much is reasonable or able to be earned while doing that job. Since we try to have Paralake City not cook its books when doing accounting beyond a reasonable amount, taxes are the main way for it to earn money and it then uses that to pay the majority of the jobs we have available. So should we add more taxes to allow these jobs to flourish a bit more? Maybe. However, a lot of people will either look for the most profitable job or the one with the most action and skip all the rest unless they're new. This means drugs and police end up rising to the top when all others get ignored. The courier job is capable of earning quite a large amount, however it is a bit slow paced for many so it doesn't get utilized. So while people do want more jobs, the question is, how do we ensure they're actually used and earn what is considered "enough?"
No one likes losing anything which I can fully understand but in order to keep a balance, there has to be room for give and take. Right now though even if we take some resources away from the super rich (whatever that may mean), they will complain and object to even a slight change which negatively effects them (much like RL). Unfortunately in doing so it also will likely effect those on the lower end too but to a larger degree, which leaves us little room to work with other than to do things to nerf how organizations are structured or allowed to set up a base. But that has minimal effects really as they're still more than likely to outnumber or outgun the entire police force on average, so their drug production rarely sees a halt which means drugs need some sort of a decrease in price, quantity, speed, etc.
Anyways, those are just a few thoughts and musings of my own. Of course there's a lot more I could say about this, however as for solutions I am most curious to see if anyone comes up with some ideas or has additional thoughts within this discussion.
- Thread starter
- #13
Personally I believe the new planter box system was poorly introduced, not only in the yield but in the way it works. Now before I begin critiquing it please know I fully understand the level of work put into it and appreciate all development towards the server.
1. The yield, you can gain roughly 100k an hour. People like myself who are in the top organization simply do not lose raids, we could (if we wanted to) base 10 hours a day without being challenged or losing much at all.
2. The time and effort into placing your drugs is overall complicated and difficult for a new player to understand, not only this but you have to maintain the drugs. Fun fact, it's not only players who are effected, staff members used to plant drugs and come back 40 mins later with no worry of them dying. Staff can no longer do this due to drugs dying, similarly, with players we cannot go out and do anything due to our drugs going into the flowering stage (or dying) of which is a big pain.
3. The neglect of the aforementioned has now led to the economy being in a much worse state than it should have been, had the community been allowed its input on the yield I do not think we would be in this predicament. The community despite often not deserving the opinion of theirs to be listened to do have valuable input and things like this SHOULD have been discussed thoroughly.
Again, I urge you to not take this as an insult to your work.
1. The yield, you can gain roughly 100k an hour. People like myself who are in the top organization simply do not lose raids, we could (if we wanted to) base 10 hours a day without being challenged or losing much at all.
2. The time and effort into placing your drugs is overall complicated and difficult for a new player to understand, not only this but you have to maintain the drugs. Fun fact, it's not only players who are effected, staff members used to plant drugs and come back 40 mins later with no worry of them dying. Staff can no longer do this due to drugs dying, similarly, with players we cannot go out and do anything due to our drugs going into the flowering stage (or dying) of which is a big pain.
3. The neglect of the aforementioned has now led to the economy being in a much worse state than it should have been, had the community been allowed its input on the yield I do not think we would be in this predicament. The community despite often not deserving the opinion of theirs to be listened to do have valuable input and things like this SHOULD have been discussed thoroughly.
Again, I urge you to not take this as an insult to your work.
I don't take it as an insult at all. To be honest it was a bit rushed in terms of its release among some other restrictions that I'll get into. While I want to agree with you on some points I can't, so I'll respond to each.
- That was my point about how large orgs production really doesn't see a halt, so yes it's possible to earn a rather absurd amount. It doesn't help that when we devised the new system we were trying to keep some of the old figures intact but make it slightly better if done correctly, however the bonuses given via the extra attachments were beyond what I personally wanted them to be but it wasn't my decision alone.
- I know it's not the most straightforward thing but we are in process of making some things which may help explain things for newcomers of how to play and do things within the gamemode. Staff responsibilities are not really a consideration when devising any kind of system as those may arise at any time and the majority of users are nonstaff. Unless the system is to better aid them in their tasks. The added requirement of maintaining your plants was a purposeful decision as it was to help prevent people from doing exactly what you said with essentially walking away and coming back after X time, but again this does not really effect large orgs in any way.
- The economy has been in shambles for many years, and if the new drug system is to blame... it doesn't help that you can simply type in /help chat to get the exact numbers for what water rates to use. Thus anyone is capable of producing at the full rate and means learning or finding that information is not a difficult or tricky process to get right. So I don't think it's just the drugs making everyone rich but instead the amount /help or /ooc get used for reasons I personally do not agree with do not help matters either. Let's be real though, had we opened it for community decisions, they too would have come down on more production is better, so it wouldn't be any different than it is now.
- Staff
- #18
It’s not just the drugs updates that made the server this way. Here’s some other notes worth mentioning:
- The removal of marksmanship removed the need for new players to spend large sums of cash levelling up all 4 of their marksmanship skills.
Also, with the removal of marksmanship people have at least 2.5 million in cash less to spend to level their character. Add this to the reduction in price of all items that require a piece of metal to craft and you realise that thanks to these updates requiring players to do less spending, it’s no wonder a large portion of the community have super cars.
Something else to also take into consideration is that a large portion of the player base are experienced players at this point, meaning it Makes sense that they either have large sums of cash, and / or a sizeable inventory.
- The piece of metal price reduction resulted in guns being cheaper.- The removal of marksmanship removed the need for new players to spend large sums of cash levelling up all 4 of their marksmanship skills.
Cops also don’t actively stake out boarded and suspicious properties as much as they used to, resulting in less police raids. Most police raids I’ve seen and partook in on either side was because usually someone inside had a murder warrant.Also, with the removal of marksmanship people have at least 2.5 million in cash less to spend to level their character. Add this to the reduction in price of all items that require a piece of metal to craft and you realise that thanks to these updates requiring players to do less spending, it’s no wonder a large portion of the community have super cars.
Something else to also take into consideration is that a large portion of the player base are experienced players at this point, meaning it Makes sense that they either have large sums of cash, and / or a sizeable inventory.
- Messages
- 2,615
- Reaction score
- 4,231
- Points
- 845
Practically became socially unacceptable at a certain point. I remember scouting for hours and raiding because someone wouldn't remove their boarded up windows. Knocking on the door for just having boarded up windows gets you send to gulag straight away nowadays.
- Thread starter
- #20
@StephenPuffs
1. We can agree the yield is more than is necessary, it went from being 75k (if lucky) every 2 hours to 100k every hour. That's 2.5x what it used to be.
2. I don't believe the new guide system will be as effective towards the drug system as hoped, not only this but losing a planter for a new player is a HUGE deal, its a lot of money for them. I did not mean it as a way that staff are entitled to it, I simply mean that it was a way that allowed people to do other things and not be glued to their position in the base. Similarly with players I would much rather role play still be accessible if doing drugs, that currently isn't the case but I can see why you would take the route of "help prevent people from doing exactly what you said with essentially walking away and coming back after X time". This by the way effects players of all sizes.
3. I agree, its always baffled me by how much you can get away with in /ooc /help - heck even DD spots are assisted with now.
I agree and disagree with the community part, I believe the correct community members with the correct intent can be of the most value. Something of which I believe the CM should be able to help you with finding @Dom_
1. We can agree the yield is more than is necessary, it went from being 75k (if lucky) every 2 hours to 100k every hour. That's 2.5x what it used to be.
2. I don't believe the new guide system will be as effective towards the drug system as hoped, not only this but losing a planter for a new player is a HUGE deal, its a lot of money for them. I did not mean it as a way that staff are entitled to it, I simply mean that it was a way that allowed people to do other things and not be glued to their position in the base. Similarly with players I would much rather role play still be accessible if doing drugs, that currently isn't the case but I can see why you would take the route of "help prevent people from doing exactly what you said with essentially walking away and coming back after X time". This by the way effects players of all sizes.
3. I agree, its always baffled me by how much you can get away with in /ooc /help - heck even DD spots are assisted with now.
I agree and disagree with the community part, I believe the correct community members with the correct intent can be of the most value. Something of which I believe the CM should be able to help you with finding @Dom_
